44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 1, 2023 02:00PM
Mr. Speaker, to begin, I would like to point out that it is February 1, and I would like to wish everyone in this country a happy Black History Month.
Sometimes my math skills are called into question, but, if my calculations are right, tomorrow will be February 2. Now, February 2 is Groundhog Day. I feel like I am reliving Groundhog Day a day ahead of time. I will probably repeat the speech I gave in 2019, 2020, and 2021 after we consider an identical bill in committee. It seems that people are having trouble hearing testimony from certain witnesses.
Groundhog Day is that movie where comedian Bill Murray wakes up every morning and relives the same day. Thanks to the Bloc Québécois, we are reliving the same discussion with the same arguments and debates, during which people came to tell us that it does not work, that it does not make sense.
It is not a bad principle, and it was even adopted at the NDP convention in 2018. The resolution was twofold. The first part involved a single tax return for Quebeckers. Because of historic absurdities, war efforts and jurisdictional squabbles, Quebeckers ended up being the only parties in the Canadian federation who have to complete two tax returns. Obviously, no one likes paperwork and no one likes waste. Everyone wants things to be faster and easier. Yes, everyone agrees on that, but implementing the single tax return would have an impact on real people, families and the regions of Quebec.
That is why the NDP resolution had a second part. We agree with the principle of a single tax return, but there must not be a human cost. Workers should not have to pay the price. People should not end up in a tough spot because we made a decision that we thought was good in theory. Yes, at first glance, completing one tax return instead of two seems logical and it seems to make life easier for everyone.
I will come back to employment, but I think the first thing that is important to mention in this debate is that this is not the 1980s. Back then, in Quebec, everyone went to the credit union to pick up the stack of Quebec tax forms and the stack of Canadian tax forms in February and March. People would take them home, go through all the pages and fill out the document by hand. After that, they had to get their T4s and tax receipts. Then, they would take the other form, fill in all the numbers by hand, and finally mail their provincial income tax return to Quebec and their federal income tax return to Ottawa. It was a pain, and it is unfair that, historically, Quebeckers were the only ones to be stuck doing this. It is unfortunate.
It is now 2023 and the situation has changed. People do not go to their credit unions to pick up their forms. We have recent data that speaks to that. Most professionals told us that, since 2016, at least 60% of Quebeckers' income tax returns are prepared by accountants. The remaining 40% are completed by the individuals themselves. Of this 40%, 75% are completed with online software.
Completing an online form is quite simple. The taxpayer fills out the return and the online software puts the information in the right boxes, with the small blue flower on one side and the small red leaf on the other. This has practically no impact on people's lives. It is done automatically. The taxpayer enters their amounts, social insurance number, address, charitable donation receipts, and political donations, if any, just once and then it is sent by email with one click to Quebec City and to Ottawa. They just have to enter the information once, and the rest is done automatically. The deductions are calculated automatically.
The fact is, between 10% and 12% of Quebeckers complete two paper income tax returns. That is one in 10. This measure will not change a single thing for 90% of people. I expect that 10% to 12% to shrink from year to year because the trend is clear. Fewer and fewer tax returns are being done on paper, and more and more are being done online.
This solution is very appealing at first glance because it appears to simplify people's lives. The NDP supports that, but we realize the impact in terms of helping people and simplifying their lives will diminish over time. Where it will have a definite impact is on job losses in the regions in Quebec. That is what we heard from the member for La Prairie, who appeared before the Standing Committee on Finance in 2021.
During an exchange with the member for Joliette, the member for La Prairie said that only 44% of the 5,300 people at the Canada Revenue Agency in Quebec are really useful. According to the member for La Prairie, only 44% of the 5,300 workers are truly useful. That is right in the Standing Committee on Finance evidence. He comes along and says that the other half are technically useless. I would like him to tell the other 3,000 employees that they are useless.
Is that the Bloc Québécois's vision for regional economic development and respect for workers? That is really bad. The member for La Prairie went on to say, “This means that 2,332 of the 5,300 people would remain employed”. It is not hard to figure out that this means 3,000 people would lose their jobs and their pay. That is what the Bloc Québécois and the member for La Prairie said, and anyone can read it in the committee evidence. They are prepared to sacrifice 3,000 jobs in the regions. That is 3,000 families for whom a paycheque is far more important than this symbolic political trinket. We must keep moving forward.
We, in the NDP, did our homework. We met with these workers' representatives. We met with people from the Quebec chapter of the Public Service Alliance of Canada, who are affiliate members of the Fédération des travailleurs et des travailleuses du Québec.
They said that, despite what they have been told, there is no guarantee that they will be sent somewhere else to work, that they will not lose their jobs and that things will not be complicated. Issues related to training, qualifications, workplace and organization of work led us to try to learn more and to ask questions. I was on the ground, visiting the tax centres in Shawinigan and Jonquière. I met with people and talked to them. It is very clear that, to them, this would mean a loss of employment. There are no guarantees. They do not believe in wishful thinking.
While it is true that service is sometimes lacking in the federal government, the federal public service has hired 35,000 people in the last two years. We are talking about 3,000 other people, but those 3,000 people are not 10% of the 35,000. They are an additional 10% on top of the 35,000. What do we do with them? The Bloc members do not have an answer. All they are saying is that things will work out, someone will find a place for them. No one believes that. The witnesses who appeared before the parliamentary committee said that there is no clear plan or guarantee. These 3,000 workers deserve respect. We want them to continue to work so they can pay their bills, pay the rent and buy groceries in their area. Surely we are not going to put their lives at risk for the sake of some political trinket for the Bloc Québécois to show off.
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Mr. Speaker, I have my trinket with me. I hope I do not show it off too much tonight.
I would like to go back to Groundhog Day. I loved that movie. In fact, I feel like I just relived Groundhog Day while listening to my NDP colleague speak.
I am the member for Jonquière, and the tax centre at issue is in my riding. I remember how in 2019, the former member for Jonquière, an NDP member, said that there would never be a single tax return, so there would not be any job losses. At the same time, however, the leader and deputy leader of the NDP were telling the national media that they respected Quebec and wanted Quebec to have as much autonomy as possible. They wanted the single tax return to go through.
It was Groundhog Day for the NDP as they talked out of both sides of their mouths. They were trying to charm Quebec by acknowledging its political autonomy, but the member for Jonquière was being told to say that it would not happen. They were saying one thing in Jonquière and another in Montreal. That is not Groundhog Day. Back home, we would call that plain old hypocrisy. However, I would not go that far. That was just a friendly update for my friend and colleague from the NDP.
I would like to come back to the member for La Prairie's fantastic introduction, which made me realize something. It often happens that the member for La Prairie makes me see the light about something. In his introduction, he talked about the genesis of the single tax return and, in doing so, he recapped the reasons that led to Confederation. I want to add a layer. The member for La Prairie forgot one small detail.
The reason for the birth of Canada, and what motivated the fathers of Confederation, was the desire to build a railway, of course. They wanted to do business from coast to coast. They had a stake in a railway company and figured that if they wanted to build a railway, why not unite?
Some countries arise as a result of a quest for emancipation. Take, for example, the United States and “We, the people”. The birth of the United States was a quest for emancipation. Other countries were created for business considerations. They said to themselves, why not build a railway?
I think this is quite important. The member for La Prairie told us that, and I think it is important because this is one of the key points about the single income tax return. The only political entity that is still trying to develop through a quest for emancipation is Quebec. There is a link here with the single income tax return.
Listen carefully. I will not shock anyone, but everyone will see the inescapable logic in what I have to say. I often do this with my girlfriend. When she says something to me, I want to know why. I want to know where she is coming from when we have a disagreement. Similarly, I want to find out what is behind the federal government's refusal to relieve taxpayers and business owners from having to file two tax returns.
What is the Liberal government's motivation for not wanting to save $425 million a year?
The answer is quite simple, and the member for La Prairie gave us part of it. It is the fear that the government would be sending a message to Quebec that Quebec is capable of managing itself as a nation. What really scares the Liberal government is the possibility that Quebec might prove that it is capable of managing itself. It is the fear that my nation might take another step towards political autonomy.
It has always been that way. Quebeckers did not want a railway; they wanted political autonomy. The other side is all about business, so our interests are not aligned. We will come back to that later.
The first major stumbling block that prevents us from being on the same page as either my NDP colleagues or members of the Liberal government is not concern about jobs. It is their fear of giving Quebec any kind of political autonomy. Doing so would show that Quebec is capable of governing itself as a nation. That is what worries them.
The Conservatives did things hastily in committee. Fear is also why they abstained from voting in committee. This would give Quebec a degree of autonomy. They can say yes in a roundabout way and then change their tune when it is time to take action. That is what we are seeing with the new Conservative leader, who now has no choice but to say he will not support Bills 21 and 96.
If we look carefully at the situation, we see that all of the parties in Ottawa have a centralizing vision, and that no party truly wants to recognize Quebec, which has unique characteristics and makes different choices. They do not want Quebec to have a single tax return.
That brings us to the strategy that the NDP and the Liberal Party use when it comes to self-government. It makes me think of Robert Charlebois's 1969 Paris tour entitled À soir on fait peur au monde, or tonight we scare people. I encourage everyone to listen to it. This strategy works all the time. I remember how Jean Chrétien said that if Quebec decided to separate, it would definitely not be able to get any more oranges. Florida would not sell oranges to Quebec because it only sold them to Canada.
The same thing is happening here. This evening, we are talking about a single tax return and they are fearmongering. If Quebec gets a single tax return, then jobs will be lost. That is the argument that I hear every time we talk about a single tax return. However, that did not stop us.
I—along with the member for Joliette, who introduced the bill in the previous Parliament, and my colleague from Lac-Saint-Jean—looked into this situation, and we went to meet with workers at the tax centre in my riding of Jonquière. Not only did we go to meet them, but we also commissioned a study to get an overview of federal public service employment in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. In looking at the results, it is clear that the government's motivation for maintaining public service jobs makes the government look bad.
The first observation is that Quebec pays approximately 20% of the CRA's budget but has only 12% of the jobs. That alone is blatantly unfair. Quebec has only 11% of the full-time jobs and only 12% of CRA jobs. Again, that is blatantly unfair.
The study we commissioned shows that there was serious job growth tied to the federal public service in the 2000s. In Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, we are short 1,100 federal public service jobs to be in the Canadian average. We are already below acceptable levels, so trying to scare people by saying that they will lose their public service jobs is just stupid.
A constituent who was hired by CRA during the pandemic approached me recently. She is happy to work for CRA, but she told me that she was told when she was hired that her position would become bilingual. Since she is not bilingual, but a francophone, her contract will end.
This person who processes CRA files will not get a permanent position because she is francophone. The federal public service is currently falling apart. We experience that as MPs every day. Whether we are talking about employment insurance, immigration or any other service the government offers, there is a severe shortage of workers. Then they take a francophone and tell her that because she is not bilingual she will not be able to keep her job.
If I were a Liberal member, I would be a lot more outraged about that than about the idea that a single tax return could result in job losses. We all know that, through attrition or by reassigning these people elsewhere in the public service, it is possible to make sure they keep their jobs.
The truth is that the government is deathly afraid of Quebec gaining greater autonomy.
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