44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 8, 2023 11:00AM
- May/8/23 6:03:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if we had a competent Prime Minister and a competent government that took national security seriously, two things would have happened following that July 21 CSIS assessment. First, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills would have been immediately informed that a Beijing diplomat was targeting the safety and security of his family and threatening his ability to do his job in this place on behalf of his constituents and on behalf of Canadians. Second, that diplomat would have been sent packing to Beijing immediately, and not two years after the fact.
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- May/8/23 6:03:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have some concerns about how we are going forward with this discussion and how we are building a stronger democracy in Canada. I know the member to be very thoughtful.
Can the member speak about the circumstances where we have to keep things private?
Regarding national security, we know not everything can be public. I am struggling right now. I am sure many people in this House are struggling with knowing where that line is and how we protect that very important public security line, but also have the ability to be transparent and also have the ability to ensure that parliamentarians know when they are at risk and when their families are at risk.
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- May/8/23 6:04:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member does raise a point, but I would submit that, under the government, the pendulum is way over on the other side: no transparency and no sunlight. The advice of CSIS to the Prime Minister has been that in order to combat foreign interference, there needs to be transparency and sunlight.
We have a situation so serious that a member of Parliament was being intimidated because of a position they took in this House and how they voted, and that their family was being threatened and sanctioned, potentially in Hong Kong, by an accredited diplomat in Canada.
The member for Wellington—Halton Hills should have been made aware of it, the Canadian public should have been made aware of it and the Beijing diplomat should have been sent back to Beijing then, not two years after the fact.
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- May/8/23 6:05:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the diplomat was expelled today, two years too late. He has been operating on Canadian soil for two years and the government knew about it.
Is the government negligent?
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- May/8/23 6:05:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I could not agree more with the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley. The diplomat should have been expelled immediately and the government had all the tools at its disposal.
Article 9 of the Vienna Convention gives the government the unfettered discretion to expel any diplomat at any time for any reason.
The government did not do that. In doing that, it sent a message to Beijing that Beijing effectively has a green light to interfere in our democracy and our sovereignty to the detriment of the safety and security of Chinese Canadians and all Canadians.
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- May/8/23 6:06:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for St. Albert—Edmonton spoke about foreign interference with respect to one particular jurisdiction. Colleagues of ours, including the member for Edmonton Strathcona, have called out foreign interference with respect to other jurisdictions as well. Russia is one example.
Does the member for St. Albert—Edmonton feel we should be looking at a full national public inquiry into all matters of foreign interference, regardless of what jurisdiction it is from?
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- May/8/23 6:07:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right that it is not only the Beijing regime that is a threat in terms of interfering in our sovereignty and our democracy. The Canadian security establishment, including CSIS, has been very clear that by far the biggest threat emanates from the Beijing regime.
There are other regimes, such as the Iranian regime that is interfering in Canada and intimidating and threatening Iranian Canadians. There is something the government could do to stop that, and that is to designate the IRGC as a terrorist entity so it can stop recruiting, fundraising and intimidating Iranian Canadians.
However, the government's soft approach, four years after the House voted overwhelmingly to designate the IRGC as a terrorist entity, has not seen fit to do that. It is just another example of the government not taking national security seriously and not putting the interests of Canadians first.
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- May/8/23 6:08:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on Thursday, while my hon. Conservative colleague was speaking, he was being heckled by members on the Liberal side, particularly the member for Kingston and the Islands and the member for Winnipeg North.
The member for Winnipeg North, in his heckle about the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, said the member is not credible.
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- May/8/23 6:08:59 p.m.
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There is a point of order by the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.
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- May/8/23 6:09:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the last time the member stood up on this point of order, he crossed the floor and threatened—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- May/8/23 6:09:14 p.m.
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Could I please hear them member out so I can see whether it is a point of order or not?
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- May/8/23 6:09:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the last time the member stood up on this issue and commented on it, I raised it and then he walked across the floor and threatened me. The member said to me that he was going to continue to rise on this issue until I apologized for something I do not believe I have to apologize for. I do not believe a member crossing the floor and making those types of verbal threats is appropriate. I would ask that the Speaker look into the matter, as I indicated earlier, about what actions members are taking to try to intimidate members of the government.
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- May/8/23 6:10:02 p.m.
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I am going to review the Hansard, as I am sure the Speaker said when this was brought forward. We will check to see if the recording is in Hansard. I was not privy to this and we do not always hear everything that is going on in the chamber. I would ask members to be judicious in their language to each other and to be respectful. I know that this is a very important debate that can be very emotional at times.
I would ask the member to ask his brief question so we can get to the next speaker.
The hon. member for Barrie—Innisfil is rising on the same point of order.
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- May/8/23 6:10:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, one thing I noticed is that when you were standing up, the member's light was still on. It is convention in this place, in fact it is a standing rule in this place, that when a Speaker rises from his or her chair, the lights are immediately cut off and the debate is ended. I just want clarification on that.
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- May/8/23 6:11:09 p.m.
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It all depends on whether I stay standing or not. Sometimes it is still on while I am listening to the member. I take note of it and we will certainly keep that in mind as we move forward.
I would ask the hon. member for Edmonton—Wetaskiwin to ask a brief question so we can get to the answer.
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- May/8/23 6:11:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member is correct. I did walk across and said that if he did not apologize, I am going to keep asking the question, and I will keep asking the question—
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- May/8/23 6:11:38 p.m.
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I would ask the hon. member to ask his question of the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton. We can leave this other debate to the side so that we can go back and look at the Hansard.
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- May/8/23 6:11:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, does the member believe the hon. member for Winnipeg North should stand right now and apologize for saying that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was not credible?
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- May/8/23 6:12:00 p.m.
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This is not becoming a point of debate as it is somebody's point of view. I am going to allow the hon. member to answer and then we are going to move on.
The hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton.
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- May/8/23 6:12:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in short, the answer to my colleague's question is yes.
Do members know who was intimidated? It is not the member for Winnipeg North. It is the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, and for two years the Prime Minister covered it up.
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