44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 8, 2023 11:00AM
- May/8/23 2:32:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, CSIS informed Canadians and the government that multiple members of this House have been targeted by foreign interference. All parliamentarians need assurance that their safety, their families' safety and their freedom of expression are not threatened. Canadians need to know that their vote counts and that our democratic process is free of foreign interference.
The government needs to assure Canadians that it is acting on these serious allegations. Let us start with some transparency. Have all MPs impacted by interference been fully notified by the government?
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- May/8/23 2:47:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the current government has failed Canadians when it comes to foreign interference from Beijing. At least eight police stations have been set up to monitor Canadians on their own soil. Eleven MPs have had interference in either their nomination or election. Two years ago, a sitting MP had his family intimidated by a Beijing operative in Toronto. With all the inaction, the very least Canadians can expect is to have that operative kicked out of Canada. When will he be?
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- May/8/23 2:47:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to assure every member of the House that we take this situation extremely seriously, as we have been doing with foreign interference for many years. We will continue to look at the situation as we have heard it. We will continue to do due diligence, and the minister will act with the right decision at the right time. This House needs to hear that.
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- May/8/23 2:49:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, two years ago, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service detected that a member of Parliament and his family were being targeted by an operative from Beijing in response to a vote in this House of Commons. We know that CSIS informed the national security adviser to the Prime Minister and the relevant departments at least two years ago. The Liberal government is now blaming CSIS for the government's own failure and inaction, and it has yet to expel any diplomats from Canada. Why is the Prime Minister allowing this Beijing operative to continue his interference campaign on Canadian soil?
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- May/8/23 2:58:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows full well that we will make the necessary decisions at the right time.
It is also important to remember that we are the only government that has taken the threat of foreign interference seriously. We put in place measures and strengthened them for the 2021 election.
We are obviously concerned about the situation of our colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills. That is exactly why we gave intelligence agencies further instructions.
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- May/8/23 2:59:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at their convention, the Liberals came up with a solution to the Chinese interference issue: stop the media from reporting on it. This was literally one of the resolutions that the Liberals passed last weekend.
As they see it, the problem is not that China helped or threatened members and their families; the problem is that the media talks about it. It is disgraceful.
To slough off the burden of dealing with Chinese interference, the Liberals have proposed a solution worthy of the Chinese Communist party.
Can they assure that House that any consideration of this solution is out of the question?
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- May/8/23 3:00:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is not what the resolution said.
Last week, the Prime Minister blamed CSIS for failing to inform the member for Wellington—Halton Hills that he was the target of threats from China. That is false. CSIS warned the Prime Minister's Office as early as 2021. The top security adviser to the Prime Minister confirmed this to the member. Why is this important? It is important because, once again, when it comes to Chinese interference, the Prime Minister is telling the opposite of the truth. What he has been saying since day one flies in the face of the truth. He has no credibility to get to the bottom of this.
When will there be an independent public inquiry?
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- May/8/23 3:29:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to inform the House that the Government of Canada has declared the individual in question today, a diplomat from China, Mr. Zhao Wei, persona non grata.
Our government has been clear we will not tolerate any form of foreign interference in our internal affairs. The Minister of Foreign Affairs has taken this decision carefully after considering all factors. Diplomats have been warned that any type of engagement in interference in Canada—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- May/8/23 4:04:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe that a public inquiry into the general problem of foreign interference is needed.
However, I also know and believe one second thing, which is that we cannot allow the process, whether matters have been referred to NSIRA, NSICOP or a special rapporteur, which could lead to a public inquiry, to prevent us, prevent this chamber or its committee, the procedure and House affairs committee, or prevent the Government of Canada, the executive branch of our system, from taking immediate action in regard to threats that are directed to members and their families or directed to Canadians who are members of diaspora ethnocultural communities. We have to be able to do both: take immediate action and, at the same time, look at some of the systemic problems that have been brought to light over the last number of months, as reports about foreign interference threat activities have surfaced.
I say “yes” to a public inquiry, but also “yes” to immediate action, and not delay as a way to prevent action by deflecting to the process of NSIRA, NSICOP or a potential public inquiry.
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- May/8/23 4:06:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this is an important question. I am very concerned about the weakening of Canada's national security and intelligence system, the intelligence community, because of what has taken place over the last several months.
I would add that it is not primarily the decision of CSIS whether or not to inform members of foreign interference threat activities. It is primarily the responsibility of the Prime Minister; an open and accountable government is clear. The Prime Minister has primary responsibility among all ministers for national security. The Prime Minister is primarily responsible for the government's relationship to Parliament.
What has clearly broken down here is the direction from the Prime Minister to direct his intelligence community, departments and central agencies to inform members of Parliament and their families, in an appropriate manner, about foreign interference threat activities. He has indicated that this will now happen going forward, but it should have happened as soon as he was appointed to office, in early November 2015.
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- May/8/23 4:14:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I sit on the ethics committee with my hon. colleague. He is quite right that we have been studying the issue of foreign interference for some time, and the pathways it is leading us down are quite interesting.
My question to him is one of confidence in our institutions. We heard the previous member, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, speak about the executive branch of government and the responsibility of the executive branch to keep its citizens, and in fact MPs, safe. What we have seen is a structural failure in that. It was only because of CSIS and The Globe and Mail that we found out that the member's family and perhaps some other MPs' families had been threatened.
Does my hon. colleague agree with me that there is a structural breakdown in the institutions and the executive branch of government that is allowing this foreign interference to propagate within Canada?
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- May/8/23 4:18:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have heard through a CSIS report that this is about not only one but a number of MPs. In fact, in 2022, there were 49 members of Parliament, many members of provincial legislatures and even city council members. We also understand that it is not only one country; it is a number of different countries.
Would my colleague across the way agree that it is the broader picture of foreign interference that we need to look at, that it is not just one isolated case and that this is indeed what the priority should be?
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- May/8/23 4:21:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques and congratulate him for his work on French-language science.
Raphaël Glucksmann, chair of the Special Committee on Foreign Interference in all Democratic Processes in the European Union, appeared before the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics the other day and told us that the special committee held 300 meetings on foreign interference, that it put forward numerous options, and that it did nothing. He warned us not to make the same mistake.
I think that it is important to take note of this, to start working in the House and in committee and to do something, because doing nothing is not an option.
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- May/8/23 4:43:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague always speaks so eloquently, and I learn so much from his interventions.
One of the things he talked about was the fact that the interference in our elections and the interference in our political system are not just happening from one country or another. I think that it is very important, when we stand in this House, to be very cautious and very careful with our language. With this particular example, we are seeing a diplomat from the government of China, but we also know that we have had people from the terrorist regime in Iran. We know that Russia has tried to influence Canada. In fact, during the convoy, we knew there was foreign influence coming from the United States.
Could the member speak a bit more about how Canada could do more to protect itself, not just from risks from the PRC but also from other countries around the world that we know are interfering with our political system?
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- May/8/23 4:44:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member for Edmonton Strathcona is a very strong and powerful voice on foreign affairs and on many other issues in this House. Her wisdom is something we should all listen to.
This is the reality, and this is why, when the NDP brought forward the motion on the public inquiry, we sought to ensure that we were fighting back against all forms of foreign interference. Yes, we know from the CSIS reports that the Chinese regime, the Russian dictatorship, Iran and India all seek to influence our democracy, seek to influence our diaspora and seek to change the direction Canadians want to take together. We have to be mindful of all those things, and this is why we believe that a comprehensive public inquiry into foreign interference is warranted and needs to be put into place.
We have been calling for it now since we brought it to the House five weeks ago. We are hoping to see a recommendation in the next couple of weeks and it being put rapidly into place. This is vitally important, and we cannot dissect one type of foreign interference from the Chinese regime or the Russian dictatorship and say that we are just going to examine one type. All of them have an impact on our democracy, and hopefully, all of us as members of Parliament will want to push back against any form of foreign interference in solidarity. Regardless of which country it comes from, it is unacceptable, and Canadians speak with one voice in standing up for our democracy.
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- May/8/23 5:34:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in particular, the member for Scarborough—Guildwood mentioned the need for a dose of humility in looking at the wider context of this situation. On that note, I wonder if he could comment about having a national public inquiry on foreign interference. Does he have a perspective to share on that? How much more information does he feel is required to support that?
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- May/8/23 6:06:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for St. Albert—Edmonton spoke about foreign interference with respect to one particular jurisdiction. Colleagues of ours, including the member for Edmonton Strathcona, have called out foreign interference with respect to other jurisdictions as well. Russia is one example.
Does the member for St. Albert—Edmonton feel we should be looking at a full national public inquiry into all matters of foreign interference, regardless of what jurisdiction it is from?
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- May/8/23 6:36:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Beijing sees the government's inaction as a major vulnerability. According to the intelligence service, Beijing sees Canada as a country that is very vulnerable to its interference because the government does not want to do anything to prevent such interference.
For example, a foreign agent registry is a tool that exists in the United States and Australia but that does not exist here in Canada. The intelligence service pointed out that, in Beijing's eyes, we are uniquely vulnerable to interference because we do not have that tool to protect us.
That is why the Conservative Party called for such a registry during the last election. We will continue to call for one and to exert pressure to make that happen.
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- May/8/23 6:41:53 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, what is disgraceful is that the Leader of the Opposition would actually suggest, as he did a moment ago, that the Prime Minister of Canada would willingly and openly allow foreign interference within the democratic process in Canada.
In 2013, when the member was the minister of democratic reform, he received a public document from CSIS stating that foreign interference was here and was something that would continue into the future. For two years, the former Conservative government did absolutely nothing about it. My question for the member is this: Can he let this House know what he did as the minister of democratic institutions in 2013?
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- May/8/23 7:09:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, one of the issues that have come up frequently in the course of this debate is the need for an independent public inquiry. We have heard of the connection between the special rapporteur and Mr. Rosenberg as it relates to the Trudeau Foundation. The Trudeau Foundation is actually implicated in this foreign interference campaign by the Beijing regime.
I want the hon. member to speak to the need for an independent inquiry to get to the bottom of foreign interference in this country.
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