44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 8, 2023 11:00AM
- May/8/23 2:33:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I share the concerns of my colleague. That is why last week I tabled an annual report of CSIS, which illustrated that they have provided briefings to 49 federal parliamentarians. We will continue to provide the support that is needed for every member in this chamber to be able to do their job, secure in the knowledge that they are representing their communities in a way that is safe.
This is a government that will continue to do everything that is necessary to defend our democratic institutions, including the people who work in them.
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- May/8/23 4:36:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I was in the House in the debate last week. I did hear the comments that I thought insinuated wrongfully that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills had some advance knowledge. The confusion around a general briefing and a specific briefing is one that the government should have cleared up and chose not to. I find that unfortunate.
The question has been asked, a number of times now, how many members of Parliament who have been directly impacted have been advised of that. I am not talking about general briefings. I am talking about specific cases that the government may be aware of and that it then ensured the member was informed of. I would respectfully suggest that the government needs to be transparent about that and let us know if all members have been impacted directly or indirectly by this foreign interference, either targeting their families or any other thing.
Will the government come forward and let us know who has been advised, and if members of Parliament have not been advised, will it move to do that immediately?
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- May/8/23 5:06:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if the member were to take the time to read the speech I gave on Thursday, he would find that I stood up for every individual member of Parliament.
My question is more looking at it from the perspective of foreign interference, which has been taking place for many years now. There is absolutely no doubt about that. In fact, if we looked at the 2022 report, we would find 49 members of Parliament, a couple dozen MLAs and even local councillors or reeves.
What might the Conservative Party's policy be in regard to CSIS? We know there were some general briefings provided. Does the member believe that all 49 members of Parliament and those who were in the report should have been better informed? Does he believe that CSIS did not do a proper job of ensuring that each of those members were more aware of why they were being given the general briefing?
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- May/8/23 6:00:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am sure that if the member were to reflect on question period and the questions he asked, he made a very clear indication in saying the Prime Minister knew. In fact, the Prime Minister was very clear in indicating that the Prime Minister did not know. Therefore, does the member believe that members should be respected when they say that they did not know and that the member is spreading misinformation by telling people that the Prime Minister did know? The member could maybe reflect on that.
Does the member recognize that in 2022 there were 49 members of Parliament who had general briefings that were provided. Does he believe that 2022 was the only year or that, in fact, that might have been happening for a number of years prior?
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- May/8/23 6:33:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, foreign interference is something that is not new. The leader of the Conservative Party is very much aware of that, because, after all, he was the minister responsible for democratic reform and he, in fact, had the opportunity to deal with foreign interference. The former prime minister, Stephen Harper, chose to do nothing, like the current leader.
Would the leader of the Conservative Party not recognize that, in 2022 alone, there were 49 briefings provided to members of Parliament? That is not to mention how many would have happened before. In order for us to deal with this, we should actually be trying to depoliticize the tactics the Conservatives have been using for well over a week now. Does he not believe that would be in the interest of Canadians? It is time to stop politicizing the issue to the degree to which the Conservative Party of Canada is doing that today.
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- May/8/23 8:08:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Prime Minister is accountable for his own words and his own actions. I have the utmost faith and the utmost belief in the member for Wellington—Halton Hills and the information that he received from the national security adviser.
Members will recall that when Katie Telford appeared before the procedure and House affairs committee, she said that there was nothing that the Prime Minister does not see, including all of the security briefings and all of the security reports. All of it, he sees. We have no reason to believe that the Prime Minister did not see this information two years ago. He should have. If it went to the Privy Council Office, as was stated by CSIS, then the Prime Minister would have surely seen this information but he failed to act. For two years, this individual ran around Canada, intimidating—
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- May/8/23 9:25:59 p.m.
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My apology, Madam Speaker. I will paraphrase appropriately.
On Friday, the Prime Minister got in on the gaslighting action. He said, “I was reassured to see that [the member for Wellington—Halton Hills] had received multiple briefings following the information collected by CSIS to ensure that he and his family were kept safe or would at least know what was going on in the extent that they needed to and they could be briefed.” The last part was a little jumbled, but I believe the implication and the only conclusion one can draw from listening to that quote is that the Prime Minister's comments are that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was aware of the interference.
I do not know if anyone from that side of the House just parachuted in from another planet, because there is no one in the Milky Way who believes that these two things can be true. Nobody can believe that there was not serious enough action to be taken. That was one story. Then Liberals say that the member himself was made aware of the allegations. Then they also say that CSIS told the member, that he was made aware of these allegations, but we never knew. It is an impossible thing to have actually happened. They cannot, on one hand, say that because it was so serious, the member was made aware, but the government did not know. There is no possible way that CSIS would brief a member of this House on a serious issue without making people in the national security apparatus aware.
Why do we need further investigation? The government's favourite game seems to be who knew what when. We always have to play that game with the government. We had to play it during SNC-Lavalin. We had to play it during the investigation of the Nova Scotia shooting. We had to play it during the WE Charity scandal. We will never know where the idea originated for the government program for the WE Charity to disburse $1 billion of government funds. We also had to play it last week with respect to the Trudeau Foundation donation that was linked to the Chinese Communist Party.
There are allegations that donations to the foundation that bears the Prime Minister's name were made to influence the government. These are in reports. These allegations are very serious. Now we have evidence that the government either sat on some information, was unaware of it or was not curious enough to find out about certain interference actions. We know that there were not enough inquiries made with respect to the political donation scandal from just a few months ago that was revealed, where CSIS again produced reports, documents and evidence that suggested there was money being funnelled through a People's Republic of China official or consulate in Toronto to various political candidates from multiple parties, I would add, yet we have seen virtually no action on that front, no arrests, no expulsions with respect to that scandal and there have certainly been no fines related to or levied by Elections Canada. It should concern all members when there are accusations of improper and illegal donations for campaigns and political parties. Should all members of this House or all potential candidates not know who they should not accept funds from? That would be very important, I would think.
I mentioned there are allegations that donations made to the foundation were done in a way to influence the government. I give full credit to a minister of the Crown for being transparent with the fact that Liberals summoned the Chinese ambassador to ask what the consequences would be. I cannot believe we asked what the consequences would be if we telegraphed that hostage diplomacy works, that we are worried about the repercussions of the expulsion of a diplomat because of what has happened over the last couple of years to Canadians in China.
Today, we learned that the government has finally expelled the individual in question, which is interesting. Is it because the government got assurances from the Chinese Communist Party that the retaliation would be small in nature and that the government could take this action and that it does not think it rises to the level of expulsion but it is under a lot of pressure to do so? The government actually has not come out and said why the individual was expelled or that it believes the individual did anything in question. We are only left to go with what the government actually said last week, which was that it did not think that the actions that were taken rose to the level of expulsion.
On my way here, I bumped into the member for York—Simcoe, who I know you like very well, Madam Speaker. He would like to speak tonight, but the spots were full. We were having a discussion about a similar question: Did the government have to give anything up? Does the government know what the retaliation is going to be already? Is it going to be transparent with Canadians? Is there some discussion about a tit-for-tat that is acceptable and that we accept as a country and so we can take this expulsion?
Even the Chinese Communist Party has said that Canada is a good target for election interference because the consequences of being caught are not that serious. That is the level of respect that the Chinese Communist Party has for Canada. I submit that Canada is not viewed as a partner; we are a means through which the Chinese will accomplish their objectives. We have resources that they are interested in. We go along to get along. We are always worried about our standing in the world, so we do not want to take too aggressive foreign policy positions.
However, the other thing that is very interesting is that we know the global power imbalances are shifting and we are funding them. We are using taxpayer dollars to fund the global realignment. We spent $256 million and funded the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Against the advice of basically every national security individual expert, we used $256 million of Canadian taxpayer money so that the Chinese Communist Party could grow its influence in the world. We have paid to undermine the global order that we enjoyed for a long time. That is a complete shame.
The government does not like to talk about its investment in the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It had not said much about it, but the last government refused to make that investment and the current government could not make it fast enough when it first took power.
Why are we talking about all this? It is clear that we need to learn more about what happened. We also have hanging over our heads the potential for an inquiry. Let me just say this about the inquiry. Nobody says here, or at least I certainly do not say here, that former governor general David Johnston is a bad person. He is an eminent Canadian and an incredibly qualified individual. It does not make him a good choice to recommend actions to the government. It is the Prime Minister's own words that say that Mr. Johnston is a very close family friend. It is the Prime Minister's own assertions of how close the former governor general is to his family. In addition, he was so linked and such a prominent figure in the Trudeau Foundation.
That does not make him a great choice to give the government advice on this matter. The test is actually quite simple. The test is whether a reasonable person would believe there is a reasonable apprehension of bias? An actual conflict does not need to exist. Just the mere perception of a conflict is enough.
There was some discussion earlier about whether or not we are to just take the Prime Minister at his word that he learned of the allegations on Monday. I believe in the height of the Cold War, it was Ronald Reagan who said, “Trust, but verify.” That is what we are going to do at the committee.
Canadians deserve more. Thank heavens we have a member in the member for Wellington—Halton Hills who has the honour, the integrity and the principled approach to stand up in this place to face down his critics.
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- May/8/23 9:45:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member on his speech. It would be a speech I would give on the topic if I were speaking to it tonight.
The member worked as a staff member years ago for Jim Flaherty. I think the excellence that Jim would have demanded from his staff, and the briefings he would have demanded, is why this member is so right in his speech.
There is just something that does not add up here. There is something that does not add up with the public safety minister and the Prime Minister. They will know for sure which cabinet ministers through the years have had special security detail. They will know that. Why is that? It is because they were briefed, and they knew it. They should have known the same thing about members of Parliament who are not in cabinet.
We are humans as well. We have families and extended families, and we are owed the same level of respect and security. This is what we really need to get to, which I think is what the member is getting to, and I would like him to comment on that.
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