SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 195 - May/11/23

May/11/23 5:16:55 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, on this side of the House, I have many colleagues who represent the interests of Quebec, including the Prime Minister, who is proud to call himself a Quebecker. I know there are many ministers and members of my caucus who have a strong sense of belonging and are proud to be Quebeckers and Canadians. We will always help the Quebec government achieve its goals. Today, what matters is that we want our new plan to be realistic, but we have to be ambitious. We really need to support immigration. We know that people are in dire need of people to help them. When we talk about it here, we always refer to “the employer”, but we should actually be talking about the employees, in hospitality, in restaurants, in hotels. They too want more workers to help them. They need it. I want to thank them in the House because they worked very hard for all of us during the pandemic.

164 words

Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

May/11/23 5:18:14 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, in Edmonton Strathcona, the number of francophone immigrants is increasing. We are very happy about that. These new francophone Canadians bring so much to our community. As the member knows, Edmonton Strathcona is the heart of the Franco-Albertan community. I would like to see more francophone immigration to my riding. However, the Government of Canada has not met the francophone immigration target for years. Why is this?

70 words

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

May/11/23 5:18:59 p.m.
Watch
Re: Bill C-13

Madam Speaker, I am going to reiterate what I was so happy to announce in the House not so long ago. For the first time in history, since we started keeping track, we have met our target of 4.4% francophone immigration outside Quebec. That was in 2022, one year ahead of schedule. I understand very well and I respect my colleague because she supports francophone immigration, and I thank her for asking me this question in my language. We need to remember two things. On Bill C-13, I know we are all working together to obtain royal assent, and I hope the House will support it. We also have the action plan. I was very proud to see the component relating to our national strategy on francophone immigration, which is supported by $137 million over the next five years to help the province of Alberta and organizations set and achieve even higher francophone immigration targets.

159 words

Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

May/11/23 5:20:05 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, on the issue of immigration, we have legitimate concerns about some portions of our population. The question is whether we are ready. Are we ready in terms of the need for shelter, affordable housing, support for people who need to learn English or French, and support for the cultural needs of everyone? I am, of course, in favour of immigration, but the question is whether the Government of Canada is ready to meet the needs of new Canadians.

80 words

Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

May/11/23 5:21:07 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, we certainly do hear those concerns all across Canada and Quebec. I just want to remind my colleague that, for the first time in Canadian history, our government has put a housing strategy in place, and that policy includes affordable housing. When it comes to speeding up housing construction, the $4‑billion accelerator fund—

58 words

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/11/23 5:21:37 p.m.
Watch

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Vaughan—Woodbridge.

9 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

May/11/23 5:21:40 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it was wonderful to see you this morning when we greeted the Moldovan president, Maia Sandu, who is quite an impressive individual. We wish her much continued success in her endeavours in Moldova. I wish to commence by saying that my parents are immigrants. I am the son of immigrants to Canada. In the late 1950s, early 1960s, my mother and her seven siblings came over to Canada by boat via a famous location in this country, Pier 21. They came to build a better life for their family and, eventually, for their children and grandchildren. Canada has given us much to be thankful for. Canada chose us. It chose my parents, and as newcomers to this country, we never forget that. Therefore, I wish to give thanks. I am pleased to rise today to tell members about the Government of Canada's immigration levels. Every year, the government tables the annual immigration levels plan for the following year. Canada's immigration levels plan is based on input from employers, communities, provinces and territories, and it is informed by data. Let me be clear. Canada needs more newcomers to address our demographic challenges and the labour shortage and to ensure our long-term prosperity. Under the Canada-Quebec accord, Quebec has rights and responsibilities with respect to the number of immigrants Quebec takes in and how they are selected, welcomed and integrated. We therefore work closely with Quebec on everything related to immigration. Without immigrants, it would have been very difficult for Canada's economy and Quebec's to deal with the challenges of the past two and a half years. In fact, many temporary and permanent residents in this country work in key sectors, such as health care, transportation, agriculture and manufacturing. One of these programs, dubbed the guardian angel policy for health care workers, was created with Quebec's help. Immigrants played a key role in Canada's post-pandemic economic recovery, which was among the strongest in the world. That includes Quebec, of course. Canada also has historically low unemployment right now. The problem is that the recovery has resulted in a major labour shortage. There are currently over 700,000 vacant jobs in this country. Employers across the country are having a hard time finding and keeping the workers they need, and economic opportunities are being lost as a result. Permanent immigration is essential to Canada's long-term economic growth. It accounts for nearly 100% of the growth in our workforce and, by 2032, it will account for 100% of our demographic growth. Fifty years ago, there were seven workers for every retiree in Canada. Today that number is closer to three, and it will likely drop to two by 2035. If we do not change our current trajectory by bringing more newcomers into Canada, we will no longer be having conversations about labour shortages. We will be having conversations about whether we can keep schools and hospitals open. Immigration helps us alleviate critical labour shortages at all skill levels in key sectors across Canada. Our plan will help us ready Canada's workforce to respond to both current and future challenges. Canadians know that immigration is one of our greatest assets. It helps us compete. If we want to boost our economic success significantly, we need to boost immigration. Canada will welcome 465,000 permanent residents in 2023, 485,000 in 2024 and 500,000 in 2025. It is important to note that these levels are far from the numbers that the Bloc Québécois mentioned. I would say that these increased immigration levels will help Canada recruit the workers that it needs to address the critical labour shortage and build a strong and resilient economy for the future. There are many advantages to Canada's global leadership position in immigration and our welcoming immigration policies. Immigration enables us to meet our demographic challenges while supporting the stable and reliable social programs that we take for granted as Canadians. As I said before, we recognize that this needs to be done carefully. Canadians are now living longer and having fewer children. That reality will impact on our economy now and for years and decades to come. That is why Canada must increase the number of immigrants that we welcome. In other words, increased immigration means that we will have more people in Canada to participate in our labour force, contribute to our social programs and grow our communities. As the member knows, the Canada-Quebec accord is clear about the establishment of immigration levels. Canada sets the annual number of immigrants for the country by taking into account the number of immigrants Quebec wants to welcome. Under this agreement, Quebec is solely responsible for selecting immigrants in the economic and humanitarian streams and for applying the federal selection criteria for family reunification. If Bloc Québécois members are concerned about the decline in the number of newcomers to Quebec or the immigration thresholds set by the province, they should discuss that directly with the province. The Bloc Québécois's main concern seems to be the work of a non-partisan, independent group of Canadians who have written their own report on potential targets and suggestions for immigration. We encourage all Canadians to provide suggestions and feedback on our immigration plan and system. It is essential that all governments commit to meeting the needs of the people we serve, whether in Quebec, Nunavut, Nova Scotia or British Columbia. This is one of the reasons Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has held meetings on the future of immigration. Thousands of groups, citizens and organizations have submitted their views on their visions for immigration in the next 15 to 20 years. We are not looking to set immigration levels for the coming decades, but we are trying to understand the needs of employers, industries, communities, provinces and territories in order to make sure we have the operational capacity and modernized immigration system to support those needs. We have heard from and worked with francophone communities and Canadians outside Quebec on the challenges of declining population size in francophone minority communities. Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada and I have worked closely with the Minister of Official Languages to support the implementation of the official languages action plan, which includes strengthening francophone and bilingual immigration through the francophone immigration strategy. In 2022, we reached the target of 4.4% of francophone immigrants admitted outside Quebec. I look forward to questions and comments from members.

1099 words

Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

May/11/23 5:31:53 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I always like to listen to the member because I know he speaks from the heart. Throughout the day, I often heard speeches implying that the Bloc was against immigration, which is not the case at all. We are not against immigration at all, but we are for an immigration policy, that is for sure. I have heard a lot of arguments involving the labour shortage and economic considerations, but that was always in the short term. I also heard a lot about stirring up trouble. I would like the member to clarify something for me: In his view, if a people want to avoid the annihilation set out in the Century Initiative, is that such a bad thing?

121 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara

May/11/23 5:32:43 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Trois-Rivières for his question. Immigration is very important for Canada's economic growth, now and in the long term. It is very important when newcomers come to Canada, whether temporarily or permanently, that there be lots of housing and social services that are able to meet the demands across this country. Of course, the Province of Quebec and the Government of Canada have entered into agreements on immigration since the early 1990s. That plan has worked over the decades, and it continues to work.

94 words

Hon. Greg Fergus (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)

May/11/23 5:33:36 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate my colleague from Ontario, who was born in British Columbia, on the quality of his French. I know that he is of Italian origin and he also speaks English, but it warms my heart to hear him speak French. Often, when people talk about the Century Initiative, they say that it is a federal government initiative. We know that is a false argument because it is just one initiative out of the 3,000 stakeholders that chose to submit ideas to the federal government. The government does not have any intention of increasing the Canadian population to 100 million people. Can my colleague make a few comments on this? How can we encourage francophone immigration in Canada and certainly in Quebec?

127 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara

May/11/23 5:34:57 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, with regard to how we set our immigration targets here in Canada, obviously, it is a consultative process. We take in suggestions from numerous organizations and look to employers and the provinces as to the numbers that we need to have. I view immigration as nation building and as bringing newcomers to Canada who want not only to work but also to create a life for themselves and their families. They want to create futures and call this beautiful country that we are all blessed to live in home. It is truly special when Canada says yes to a person coming here, and they know how special it is. That is what makes our country very unique throughout the world. Again, I will repeat this: We are blessed to be Canadian, and we are blessed to call this country home.

142 words

Ms. Niki Ashton

May/11/23 5:35:52 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I have a question that ties into meeting targets. I have to say that I too am the daughter of immigrants. Like my colleague, I am very proud to be one. I know that immigration is an essential part of our country and that it contributes to building a better Canada. They say they want to welcome more francophones in particular. In Canada, and more specifically in western Canada, we desperately need consular services to support these families. Does my colleague agree that we need to ensure that these services are offered on the ground? Does the government need to invest in these services?

106 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara

May/11/23 5:37:01 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, that is a very important question. We know here in Canada that settlement services receive much funding from the federal government to help newcomers who come to Canada to settle into their communities quickly by understanding what they need. These services help them in their need to start working and to get the services that are provided by each level of government. Our office tries to assist them as well to ensure they know where to go for a driver's licence, for example, or their hospital card or to apply for different services. We need to continue to do that, particularly for those coming here with knowledge of the French language who are going to different parts other than la belle province.

125 words

Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

May/11/23 5:37:48 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, first I want to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with my esteemed colleague from Mirabel, who seems to enthusiastically agree, which is good, because it means that I will not have to give a 20-minute speech when I have prepared a 10-minute speech. As I have often stated before when rising in the House, I would like to be able to say that I am pleased to rise today. Unfortunately, I feel that I am here to debate a decision, regardless of whether it is a government initiative or an ill-considered McKinsey initiative. I am speaking about a decision that is anything but the idea of the century. I will later speak about where the idea really came from. First, what is this about? It is about increasing Canada's population to 100 million people by 2100. Let us go back a little. At the end of last fall, the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship announced new immigration targets for 2023 to 2025. The number of permanent residents for 2022, which was already a record 431,645 people, would set the tone for later years. The government informed us that it intended to welcome 500,000 immigrants a year by 2025. The Bloc Québécois was already sounding the alarm last fall, outlining the various foreseeable consequences of this massive influx of newcomers. During question period, my colleague, the member for Lac-Saint-Jean, asked the following question: ...is [the Prime Minister] providing more money for French language instruction? We just got our answer, and it is no. Is he increasing health transfers in response to demographic changes? The answer is no. What about the full-blown housing crisis? Is he providing more money to keep pace with the growing population? Again, the answer is no. Later on, after the holidays, we learned that the government had dramatically increased its use of the firm McKinsey. One of the ideas put forward by McKinsey and its former president, Dominic Barton, was the Century Initiative. My colleague, the member for Beauport—Limoilou, asked Mr. Barton about the demographic and language implications of this initiative by asking him the following: ...you said earlier that you were concerned about the French issue. In the Century Initiative and the growth council reports, which of the recommendations address the protection, development and promotion of French in Quebec and Canada? Mr. Barton simply replied: I think the focus, again on the growth council, was just on economics. It wasn't thinking about the social context. It was on productivity. Productivity is exactly what the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship and the Liberal government have been saying. The government did not bother to consider the impact this measure would have on the linguistic demography any more than McKinsey did. The government uses the same targets as McKinsey, the same reason for increasing the targets as McKinsey, and the same disinterest as McKinsey with regard to the impact increasing targets would have on French. The minister is stubbornly telling us that the decision to raise the levels to 500,000 per year is his and his alone, but at least we have an idea where he is getting his inspiration from. This measure, no matter who is behind it, is wrong. Who, exactly, does this initiative serve? Those who support the new targets have repeated this non-stop in the House today. The business community is complaining about labour shortages, and that is the only issue the Century Initiative is supposed to address. Should immigration policies not prioritize serving newcomers themselves? Unfortunately, the government missed the mark completely on that one. My colleague from Longueuil-Saint-Hubert said it more than once it yesterday: Massive immigration is exacerbating the current housing crisis. It is a recipe for impoverishing tenants, young people and large families. Most importantly, it risks causing even greater distress for newcomers, who, as we know, have more trouble than the rest of the population finding housing that is both affordable and of good quality. My colleague from Montcalm raised another issue today. He rightly reminded us that the government has only given Quebec and the provinces one-sixth of the health transfers needed to meet their current needs and provide adequate services. The member for Montcalm then asked on what studies the government based its claim that at least 500,000 more people can receive care each year with one-sixth of the money that is already needed. The government did not answer. The same questions could be asked about other services for the public. One can think of education, for example, and the fact that the children of newcomers will bear the brunt of increased pressures on schools. There are good reasons to believe that French-language schools in Ontario might not be able to keep up with the growth, especially when we know that there is a severe shortage of francophone teachers. Officials from school board associations and francophone teachers' unions told us yesterday that the situation is bordering on disaster. The government's immigration agenda does not seem to be aimed at the interests of newcomers, but rather to respond in a purely utilitarian manner to the demands of employers. In addition to being out of step with the needs of potential newcomers, the immigration targets of the current government have harmful and certainly not insignificant effects on Quebec. Although it has been recognized in the House that Quebec is a nation, the government did not hesitate to turn a blind eye to the will of Quebec when setting its targets. The Century Initiative and its targets for Quebec are what I would call a catch-22. Quebec will be forced to choose the lesser of two evils. On the one hand, if Quebec decides to increase its immigration thresholds in line with the general Canadian trend, it will face immense challenges related to integration and French language instruction. As I mentioned earlier, access to health care, education and housing will be jeopardized. We also have to ask some questions about issues related to land use, the green transition, and more broadly, our ability to maintain the economic and social model that is unique to Quebec. On the other hand, if Quebec decides to maintain its own targets regardless of what the feds want to do, then it is doomed to lose some of its demographic weight within Canada, which would translate into a significant decline in Quebec's political weight within the Canadian federation. As we know, the demographic trend in Quebec is already declining compared to Canada. In a little over 50 years, Quebec's weight in the Canadian federation has dropped from 29% to 22%. Canada's migration policies were much less ambitious in the past. This has an impact on the division of powers between the federal and provincial governments even at the most superficial level. According to former Liberal minister and tenured professor Benoît Pelletier, the decline of Quebec's political weight in the Canadian federation is irreversible, and this decline will inevitably be accompanied by a greater centralization of powers at the federal level given that Quebec plays a role in slowing down this centralization. One thing that was mentioned by the Bloc Québécois is that it is normal and healthy in a democracy to have public debates about important issues that shape the future, especially the demographic future, about the kind of economic growth we want, and the safety net that we want to build. These discussions include the immigration policy and its effects on the host society. We keep being told that Quebec is free to set its own immigration targets. However, as I just mentioned, the federal targets cannot help but impact what Quebec will look like, and Quebec was not consulted. As proof, we have the three motions in that regard that were adopted unanimously in Quebec's National Assembly. One might believe that the federal government inadvertently forgot to take Quebec into account. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt. However, the government now knows that Quebec opposes its intention to increase the thresholds. As of now, continuing with this proposal is to officially and knowingly ignore the will of Quebec. Some may have said to themselves, in the fall, when the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship presented his new targets, that perhaps he was only thinking of economic interests linked to labour shortage problems. However, after today's debate, we will see if the minister decides to maintain his targets. As the member for Beloeil—Chambly would say, a known consequence constitutes intention. If the minister decides to go ahead, we cannot help but see a real intention in that, which is to see Quebec's weight diminish or to see the province unable to ensure its linguistic, cultural and socio-economic future. Faced with these two choices that the federal government is trying to force upon them, I can only hope that Quebeckers will see the third and only real path to follow, which is to finally give themselves their own country.

1543 words

Hon. Greg Fergus

May/11/23 5:47:55 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I am pleased that my hon. colleague from Saint-Jean said that we should take immigrants' interests into account. We should not resort to a utilitarian argument to speak on behalf of these people. I am a Quebecker. If we want to ensure the vitality of the French language in Quebec and if we really want to put ourselves in the immigrants' shoes, we could ask the hundreds of thousands of francophone immigrants from West Africa and the Caribbean who would like to come to Quebec if they are ready to accept the conditions in Quebec and—

100 words

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/11/23 5:48:59 p.m.
Watch

I am sorry. I have to allow the member to answer. The hon. member for Saint-Jean.

17 words

Ms. Christine Normandin

May/11/23 5:49:02 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, there are two things. One of the problems with mass immigration is that when we try to look for top-notch people, we drain their countries of origin of the brains they need as much as we do. The other thing is that we are talking about francophone immigration. That is great. We can welcome francophone immigrants. As I mentioned in my speech, however, the resources are not available. We are seeing that in Ontario right now, where there is a teacher shortage in French schools. If a francophone family moves here, but there are no staff at the French schools, what will happen? They will send their children to an English school, cancelling out the impact of francophone immigration.

122 words

Hon. Greg Fergus (Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the President of the Treasury Board, Lib.)

May/11/23 5:49:54 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it is rare that I have an opportunity to debate with the member. These people are francophone and do not need to be francized. We can attract teachers who are ready to teach. They could also offer their services to Quebeckers. Why not let these people determine their own future? Why, as Canadians, should we determine what they should do and in what conditions they should live? Why not let these people vote with their feet?

78 words

Ms. Christine Normandin

May/11/23 5:50:28 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, if it is so simple to bring in French teachers, why has Ontario not already done so? One has to wonder, but there is clearly no acceptable answer because there are no francophone teachers. Even if those who settle here are francophone and do not need to be francized, the government is still losing sight of the problem of anglicization and language transfer toward English. That problem will only get worse if services are not offered in French, as is currently the case. Francophone immigration in and of itself will not resolve the problem, particularly since the government's target of 4.4% francophone immigration, which has been met only once in 20 years, is insufficient to ensure that there is no language transfer toward English and that the demographic weight of francophones in Canada is maintained.

140 words

Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

May/11/23 5:51:25 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, we are talking about immigration. Of course, there are many different ways we can have newcomers come to Canada and be part of those immigration levels. In fact, currently, there are many migrant workers who are already here in Canada, including undocumented individuals. At the bare minimum, we are looking at at least half a million individuals who are in that category. They are already here. They are already contributing in many ways. Would the member support the call for the regularization of these many newcomers who are already in Canada and for that to contribute to immigration level numbers?

102 words