SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 197 - May/15/23

Mr. Blake Richards (Banff—Airdrie, CPC)

May/15/23 12:27:26 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the government has become well known for making a promise and then delivering something completely different from what it had promised. I think we could see the Prime Minister as the Harry Houdini prime minister, holding up something here, and then, poof, with some sleight of hand, delivering something completely different. I think there are many Canadians who are starting to see behind the veil and understand that those magic tricks are not really so magical after. In listening to the minister today, responding to some of the questions that she had been asked previously, I see that played out very clearly in front of our eyes. I would like to follow up, in two parts, on some of the things we have already heard about. The government is one that came in saying it would never implement closure, or time allocation. Just so Canadians understand what that means, it means cutting off debate and taking away the voice of a member of Parliament to be able to voice their constituents' concerns. That is what the government is doing, and it has done that dozens, in fact hundreds, of times. I wonder if the minister could actually answer that question. I also heard a member ask whether the bill would do anything to prevent the dumping of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence, and I did not hear an answer. I heard the minister talk about everything else, which is a very typical Liberal way to approach things: to talk about everything else in order to deflect from the fact that the Liberals are not doing things that Canadians expect of them. Maybe the minister could actually try answering the question. Would the bill prevent raw sewage from being dumped into the St. Lawrence?

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:29:04 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I will note that the member opposite's party is expected to support this bill. That is an indication of how important this is to all constituents across the country. Canadians, regardless of the party and the member of Parliament who represent them in their riding, want stronger protections for the environment. That is what the government has consistently delivered. In fact, we are the only government that, for example, has imposed a price on pollution, something that the member opposite's leader now opposes. Canadians know that the climate is changing. They know we have significant challenges ahead, and this is an important piece of legislation that will protect the rights of Canadians to a healthy environment. I think Canadians expect us to act quickly.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

May/15/23 12:29:58 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I take note that this debate on a time allocation motion about an environmental protection act really has nothing to do with the issue the Conservatives keep raising. The only thing they can talk about, when it has to do with the environment, is Montreal and what it does with its sewage system. If they really wanted to help Montreal, perhaps they would talk about helping Montreal with infrastructure to upgrade the capacity, so it is no longer put in those types of situations. That seems to be the go-to when it is anything related to the environment. We are talking about a piece of legislation that will significantly overhaul the way we look at environmental protection in our country for generations to come. I am wondering if the minister can talk about, and I know that she already has, and highlight some of the specifics of what this legislation will do to improve the quality of life of Canadians for generations to come.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:31:03 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, after travelling around the country visiting with indigenous communities over the past two years, the most heartbreaking aspect is visiting a community that has seen a significant degradation of its environment related to industrial activity. We do not have to look very far. These are communities in northern Ontario. I know some members have never been there, but when one visits the community, one sees environmental pollution, and one could say environmental racism. There are people living there, and they have a right to a healthy environment, just like everyone in Montreal, Toronto, Windsor and Thunder Bay does, for that matter. This legislation is important. It is important to make sure that we do not have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind perspective when it comes to environmental rights. This legislation helps to get us there.

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Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

May/15/23 12:31:55 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the minister spoke about the need for the government to listen to indigenous communities. The AFN wrote to the government and provided recommendations. The first recommendation was to include the words “future generations” in the protection of the right to a healthy environment. We heard the same recommendation from indigenous leaders at committee. Giving future generations a right to a healthy environment is not only a critical step forward to protect human health and the environment, but also an important way to listen and act on the recommendations from indigenous leaders. I tabled an amendment to reflect that request, but the government voted it down. I am wondering if the minister can speak to why.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:32:39 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, the record of the government on environmental law and protections for the future generations is something that all Canadians have noted. In fact, our environmental plan is about protecting the future generations. It is about our part as Canada to reduce emissions, transition to a clean economy make sure that everybody has an opportunity to benefit from that clean economy. We have to do so, even though those conversations are hard. That is what this debate has been. This has been hours and hours of debate, more than there were for the budget implementation act. This has been about extensive study, many written submissions and many oral submissions. I look forward to working with the member opposite and, indeed, all parties, to make sure that, as we implement this legislation, we breathe full life into it, so that every Canadian can see themselves reflected.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall (Yorkton—Melville, CPC)

May/15/23 12:33:35 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, as I have been listening, I have heard there “is no time to waste”, that we have a right to a clean environment and that this is “a duty”. We have to uphold the principles of a clean environment for Canadians and our indigenous people, for sure. I am confused that this legislation did not come until February 2022, and it has taken this long and multiple amendments to what clearly must have been a sorely lacking piece of legislation. It is important that we get to spend the time we need to make sure that it is done right. I would ask the member how it is that this has suddenly become a priority and, unfortunately, came in as such a weak bill in the first place.

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Ms. Laurel Collins

May/15/23 12:34:29 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the member referred to “our indigenous people”. The member for Winnipeg Centre has raised this point a number of times in the House, requesting members to not use possessive language. Indigenous people do not belong to the members of the House, so I would ask the member to use different language.

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Mrs. Cathay Wagantall

May/15/23 12:34:58 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, it is not possessive language. It is recognition of—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 12:35:02 p.m.
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That is debate. This has been requested by an indigenous member of the House. The hon. minister has the floor.

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Hon. Patty Hajdu

May/15/23 12:35:08 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise to answer this question. There was, weirdly, an imposing premise in the question that, one, it took the government too long to get here and, two, the government was rushing through this legislation. Let me just address this. Unlike the previous Conservatives government under Stephen Harper, which introduced water legislation on a first nation without any consultation with first nations people, the Liberal government takes its time to ensure that it hears all perspectives before tabling important legislation like this. I am thrilled to support this legislation, and I know that many others in this House are. I am thankful for the time today.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 12:35:46 p.m.
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It is my duty to interrupt the proceedings at this time and put forthwith the question necessary to dispose of the motion now before the House. The vote is on the motion. If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

May/15/23 12:37:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we request a recorded vote, please.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 12:37:26 p.m.
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Call in the members.

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Call

The Speaker

May/15/23 1:22:04 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

I declare the motion carried. I wish to inform the House that, because of the proceedings on the time allocation motion, Government Orders will be extended by 30 minutes.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/15/23 1:22:44 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to rise and support this legislation, Bill S-5. I understand, from what I have been told, that all members of the House recognize its value and are in favour of supporting it. As the House will know, it is a substantive piece of legislation. It has been a long time since we have seen substantial changes to our environmental laws, which is the essence of what Bill S-5 would do. In many ways, it would make substantive changes that would modernize the law and make a very powerful statement to all Canadians. They have a right to a healthy environment. The essence of Bill S-5 is about ensuring that Canadians recognize they have a right to a healthy environment. What is interesting is the process that has brought us to where we are today. The legislation has been thoroughly debated in different committees, both at the Senate and at the House of Commons, and it has already had a substantial number of amendments. During the years I was in opposition, it was rare to see amendments, unless of course they were government amendments, but when we think of—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 1:24:15 p.m.
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The hon. member for Laurentides—Labelle is rising on a point of order.

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Ms. Marie-Hélène Gaudreau

May/15/23 1:24:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is a serious problem. The interpretation is not working. Perhaps some headsets are not working properly. Can that be checked?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

May/15/23 1:24:32 p.m.
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The interpretation seems to be working. However, there was a lot of noise in the House, so maybe we can try to keep the noise down so we can all listen to the proceedings. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/15/23 1:24:43 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-5

Madam Speaker, I was referencing the fact that what we have today is very solid legislation. In good part, it is because of all the efforts that have been put into making this legislation what it is today. We could go back to the department and the consultations of hundreds, if not thousands, of Canadians and different stakeholders, all contributing to the original legislation, which went through the Senate. The idea was that by having it go through Senate we would get it passed in a more timely fashion. The Senate did a fantastic job, as did the House of Commons and colleagues who sit on the standing committee for the House. I referred to the numerous amendments that were proposed. The Prime Minister has indicated that when we bring in legislation and if there are things we can do to give strength to the legislation as a government, we are open to doing that. It does not have to be a government amendment, and Bill S-5 is a clear demonstration of that. Members from all political parties contributed to the debate and dialogue and listened to the presentations, and many amendments ultimately were accepted. When I started my comments, I was pleased to recognize that members on all sides of the House, like the Senate, would be passing the legislation. As a parliamentarian over the years, I have seen more people becoming concerned about our environment and what we are doing about it. It is a legitimate concern among Canadians, and it is a growing concern. When we think about the legislation, we can talk about the toxic substances in the environment. We can talk about how the legislation would set up a better regime for the management of chemicals, or how it would modernize that, or how it would put in place a system that would allow for the science of today to be applied in many different ways with regard to our environment and the types of policy decisions being made. We ultimately will be passing and environmental protection law. All of this will have a significant impact, but it is not just this legislation. For many years now, we have taken an approach to deal with the environment from both a legislative perspective and a budgetary perspective. Let me give some examples. When people think of our environment, they often think of plastics. How often do we see plastic grocery bags hanging from trees? It is quite a bit. We can talk about the banning of single-use plastics as an example of a government action that has been received quite well among the public. We can talk about how, through a budget, we were able to support and incentivize people to purchase hybrids or electric vehicles. We brought in other legislation that made a very powerful statement about net-zero emissions by 2050 and then have regulations to support that, not waiting a year for reports, much like in this legislation. There would be mechanisms put in place to ensure there is a higher sense of accountability. I like the fact that if individual Canadians have specific concerns, a procedure would be in place to allow them to elevate that concern to the government, with some expectation that at least it would be taken into consideration. When we put everything together and talk about the types of things that we have seen, such as the expansion of land under conservation, the expansion of the number of national parks, bringing in legislation of this nature and supporting the environment through budgetary measures, it has been made very clear that the Prime Minister and the Liberal government have been genuine in ensuring that we pass on a healthier, cleaner environment to future generations by putting together a framework that would enable it to continue on.

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