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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 201

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 29, 2023 11:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 201 - May/29/23
Mr. Jasraj Singh Hallan
  • May/29/23 8:30:40 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, if the minister is not going to listen to the future Liberal leader, maybe she will listen to the random Liberal Bill Morneau, who said that the government overspent, or to a former Liberal premier who said that, on the inflation side, if governments continue to spend beyond their means, they are going to continue to have inflation that continues to increase. Are they right or wrong?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:31:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it is incontrovertible that Canada has a strong and responsible fiscal policy. That has been reiterated by S&P. We have the lowest deficit and the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 and an AAA credit rating. Those are objective markers and not, frankly, partisan talking points from the Conservative—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:31:24 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Jasraj Singh Hallan
  • May/29/23 8:31:26 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we agree that the people we listed are random Liberals, and they are partisan, like Tiff Macklem, the minister herself, Mark Carney and Bill Morneau. We fully agree with that. Does the minister think they are all wrong? Yes or no.
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:31:42 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would normally be surprised to hear the Governor of the Bank of Canada, Tiff Macklem, described as partisan, but given that the member's party has done the astonishing thing of undermining the credibility of the Bank of Canada, I am beyond being surprised by it.
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Mr. Jasraj Singh Hallan
  • May/29/23 8:32:03 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, can the minister please tell Albertan families how much it is going to cost when carbon tax 1 and carbon tax 2 are fully implemented on each Alberta household?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:32:16 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, we have been talking about fiscal responsibility. Let me quote the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who said, at the finance committee, “When looking at G7 countries, Canada compares very favourably on net debt-to-GDP.”
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Mr. Philip Lawrence (Northumberland—Peterborough South, CPC)
  • May/29/23 8:32:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to start out with some serious discussion. I believe we had a serious discussion at the finance committee. We are in perilous economic times. We are facing high inflation, high interest rates, increasing unemployment, record-high housing prices, low growth and record food bank usage. I would just like to start to get some basic answers, some straightforward answers to some straightforward questions. What will be the deficit in 2023?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:33:05 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, is that in 2022 or 2023? We published a “Fiscal Monitor” last week, and it showed that our deficit for 2022-23 is likely to be lower than forecast. We forecast around $43 billion. We are now seeing it coming in at $40 billion or lower.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:33:25 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what will be the national debt at the end of 2023?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:33:30 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, our debt-to-GDP ratio is coming down. It is at 43.5% and it is going to continue to come—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:33:41 p.m.
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The hon. member for Northumberland—Peterborough South.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:33:45 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, what was the debt-to-GDP ratio in 2021-22?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:33:55 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up strongly during COVID, and that was because we had to spend significantly to support Canadians. It was the right thing to do, and we are seeing the results with a very strong job market.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:34:13 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, during COVID, from 2021 to 2022, and then the next year, from 2022 to 2023, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up. Is that not correct?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:34:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the debt-to-GDP ratio went up as a result of our extraordinary COVID spending. In budget 2023, we showed a debt-to-GDP ratio in 2022-23 of 42.4%—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:34:41 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Philip Lawrence
  • May/29/23 8:34:43 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it went up from 42% to 43%, which is odd because, in this very House, the Minister of Finance said, “On this point, let me be very clear. We are absolutely determined that our debt-to-GDP ratio must continue to decline and our deficits must continue to be reduced. The pandemic debt we incurred to keep Canadians safe must be paid down. This is our fiscal anchor. This is a line we will not cross.” Why did they cross the line?
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Hon. Chrystia Freeland
  • May/29/23 8:35:10 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to quote someone who is not partisan and who has been respected by all members of the House as a fiscal expert, Kevin Page, who is the former parliamentary budget officer. This is what he had to say about our budget. He said that the 2023 budget has a “credible fiscal strategy”, and that “the government's fiscal anchor of a declining ratio is maintained”. This is a declining ratio over the framework, and, I want to point out, tripling—
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The Chair
  • May/29/23 8:35:39 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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