SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 220 - Sep/19/23

Ms. Ruby Sahota (Brampton North, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 8:54:18 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I can understand that there is a lot of concern and confusion right now, and a lot of questions are being raised, but I also want to point out the fact that a take-note debate is for us to raise our concerns in this House, any questions we may have and the things we want to see happen in the future. What I am looking forward to seeing is the public inquiry that will be taking place, which will be led by Justice Hogue. I am happy to say that the scope of that inquiry has been expanded thanks to our government and the support from the NDP. We know the Conservatives were fixed on just setting down the issue of China. I want to know how the member feels about having a broader scope to make sure that all Canadians are protected and that our democratic institutions are safe from harm from the many countries out there that seek to attack Canada.

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:55:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, obviously, when it comes to an issue as important as foreign interference, we need to address it seriously. We have been calling for this much-discussed independent inquiry for quite some time. It took a long time for the government to embark on this and get involved. The Bloc Québécois has been asking for this to happen for a long time. At the time, we were talking a lot about foreign interference by China. Today, given what we know, it is undeniable that we need to broaden our scope when we talk about foreign interference. If Ms. Hogue addresses the issue of India, it will be very interesting for us to have the information about this particular foreign interference. We are open to the judge proposing solutions and things the government can do to protect Canada from any form of foreign interference.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 8:56:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the reason we are here today is that Mr. Hardeep Singh Nijjar was murdered. We have now heard that CSIS knew there were threats against his life for some time. I wonder what next step we need to take as parliamentarians. What does the government need to do to make sure that this same incident and horrific tragedy does not happen to other members of the Sikh community and other members of diaspora communities in this country? What are those steps? Do we need to involve the RCMP? Do we need to make sure that there is a foreign registry? From the member's perspective, could she speak about the steps that would protect the Canadians who I know are feeling extraordinarily vulnerable right now?

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:57:34 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, that is an excellent question. I do not necessarily know the answer, but I think the first step is simply to talk about it. I greatly enjoyed listening to my colleague's thoughts just now, when she asked what we are here for if not to speak out against things happening in certain countries, like injustice against religious minorities, various other minorities and vulnerable people, for example. I consider it our duty as parliamentarians to speak out against these things and then discuss them. Then we can come up with solutions together, but we need to talk more about what is going on here, at home. God knows injustice exists here like anywhere else. This is part of our role in a world of international relations among nations. These conversations may not be easy, but we certainly need to have them.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Sep/19/23 8:58:41 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my colleague from Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia for her speeches, which are always insightful and sensitive. I would like to ask her the following question. After seeing all the hesitation and avoidance that the government was careful to display all spring, does she believe that the government will really do anything about this situation, apart from the inquiry that is already in progress? These facts are weighing heavily on our minds this week.

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Ms. Kristina Michaud

Sep/19/23 8:59:17 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I always act in good faith. I give people the benefit of the doubt even though a person tends to lose confidence after repeated failures. However, I also trust in law enforcement and the intelligence agencies. I know that they are able to do the necessary work. I have therefore decided to act in good faith in this case, but obviously the government should send a strong message about its response to foreign interference, regardless of what form it takes, particularly in this case.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin (Rivière-du-Nord, BQ)

Sep/19/23 9:00:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, it will come as no surprise when I say that I, too, offer my deepest condolences to the family of Hardeep Singh Nijjar. They have been in mourning since last spring, and we are reigniting that grief with our debates in the House this week. They have my deepest sympathy. I do not want to turn an emotional debate into a partisan one, but I feel it must be said: Canada is in a bit of a mess. I am looking at what is happening right now. On Monday, the Prime Minister announced something that he said he had known for a few weeks. When we asked why he did not mention it before, we were told that the investigation is ongoing so it cannot be discussed. It is almost as if he told us that there is a fire, but he will not tell us where. That does not strike me as particularly nice, and I am not sure that it is helpful. That said, as my colleague from Trois-Rivières mentioned earlier, it is clear that other governments are in no hurry to support the Prime Minister in his statement and his demands. What does that mean? Is it because the information was not reliable? If so, the Prime Minister's statement yesterday was premature. If it was indeed premature, he may have caused more harm by making the statement too soon than he would have caused by waiting, even though he might have been criticized for waiting too long. I have never governed a state, and I may never do so, unless Quebec chooses independence, and even then I doubt I will be in charge. Still, when governing a country, one should make sure one knows what one is talking about before stirring up a hornet's nest. Is that what happened here? I do not know, but I am astounded that more detailed information is not available. Is there a connection between the potentially unclear information the Prime Minister got, the weeks of waiting before he made his statement and other governments' silence? We do not know. I think that the first thing we should do is offer support to the diaspora of all these communities living in Canada. As I said at the beginning of my speech, when we look at what is happening, we are in a bit of a mess. There is foreign interference and we have to name a commissioner to look into it. Justice Hogue is going to do excellent work, I am sure of it, but we have a long way to go. We are not there yet. In the meantime, Chinese communities in Vancouver and Toronto seem to be struggling with clandestine Chinese police stations. The government does not seem to have reacted to this situation other than to condemn it. Nothing was done to stop it. Now there is the murder of Mr. Nijjar last spring which is alleged to be tied to the Indian government. The government is reacting several months later and does not want to tell us what is happening. They are talking about another inquiry that we know nothing about and over which we have no control. How do we reassure the Indian diaspora here in Canada? How do we reassure the Chinese diaspora here in Canada? How do we reassure all the other cultural communities living here? I get the impression that the government has quit. When we ask questions, they do not want to provide answers. Here we are halfway through the government's mandate. Two years have gone by; we have two left, unless everything blows up before the end of this four-year cycle. If we look at the other options, what are they? Where is the official opposition that should be here vigorously condemning the situation and maybe sharing some pain and suffering, putting forward its ideas and its point of view? It is not here. Between the “we do not know, so we cannot talk about it” silence and “we are not there, and we do not want to talk about it” silence, Quebec is in an uncomfortable position within the Canadian federation. I would like to reiterate my deepest condolences to Mr. Nijjar's family. I hope we can find a way to provide reassurance and support to all these communities, a way that is more than just lip service, motions of support and new national days of this, that or the other, a way to really be there when people need us.

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Mr. Randeep Sarai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:05:02 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would have liked to have asked His Majesty's opposition, the Conservative Party members, a question, but unfortunately nobody is speaking today, so I will reiterate what the member for Rivière-du-Nord was just saying. A lot of Bloc members were given a lot of time and a lot of Conservatives were not. Yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition supported the Prime Minister's statement and reiterated a similar statement. This take-note debate was also agreed upon unanimously. Did Conservatives give any information on why they would not be speaking today? Did former prime minister Harper call and say “Conservatives shut up. Go home. It's time to not speak. You cannot speak about India, but you must speak about China”? If I recall prior to the House rising in June, it was all about foreign interference, but now with another country coming up it is dead silence. I see canaries on the other side who are not chirping today. Could the member make some comments on that?

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The Chair

Sep/19/23 9:06:05 p.m.
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I would just remind members not to call anyone names and also be careful about underlining whether someone is here or not here. The hon. member for Rivière-du-Nord.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Sep/19/23 9:06:23 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I hope that what I am about to say will not surprise my esteemed colleague, for whom I have a great deal of respect. No, Mr. Harper did not call me. I understand his questions. I have the same questions. As I said earlier, this raises a number of questions. Who governs this country? I tell my constituents that if they want reassurance, they have to make sure they have Bloc Québécois members in Ottawa. Without us, no one can say that everything is fine.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Sep/19/23 9:07:11 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I have a question for my colleague and friend from Rivière-du-Nord. The matter is clear. We now understand that the victim of this terrible murder, Mr. Nijjar, had been warned by police and by CSIS that he was being threatened and was not safe. I am going to say this in English. It is late. I am very troubled that our security forces and the RCMP were unable to keep Mr. Nijjar safe. As to this aspect, I wonder if my friend from Rivière-du-Nord has any thoughts or comments. It strikes me as a failure of our security services, and I wonder if he feels the same.

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Sep/19/23 9:08:18 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank my Green Party colleague, who always does excellent work and who is remarkably sensitive and diplomatic. I understand her questions. I am asking myself the same things. Why were authorities unable to keep Mr. Nijjar safe? If I understood correctly, he was given information at one point, but that does not seem like much in terms of ensuring his safety. Over the past few years, incidents have occurred on the Hill that have led us to question what we need to do to keep parliamentarians safe. People are also wondering how to keep cultural communities across Canada safe. I think that some serious work needs to be done. I have been here for eight years, and we have been talking about the problems with the justice system for eight years. We talked about it again recently. The government has been unable to appoint judges, so trials get dropped because the judges who are there do not have time to conduct them. We are not keeping the public safe. As I said before, unfortunately, I think things are looking pretty grim in Canada.

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Ms. Anju Dhillon (Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:09:44 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, my colleague always fights for justice and human rights. We work together on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I was deeply interested in his speech. He mentioned that members of the diaspora are truly worried about what is happening. These people often have to flee violence in their country of origin. What more does he think we can do to help members of the diaspora feel safer?

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Mr. Rhéal Éloi Fortin

Sep/19/23 9:10:29 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I will be brief and tell my colleague that we will never form government. Unfortunately, I cannot tell her how to go about that. She is a member of the Liberal Party. I suggest she discuss it with her Prime Minister, party officials and cabinet. That is where the answer is. They are the ones in charge. She and I are condemning the same events. However, all I can do is speak out against them and condemn them. I hope that she is in a position to intervene. I also have a great deal of respect for her, especially for the work we did together on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I trust her.

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Mr. Randeep Sarai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:11:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I will be sharing my time with the member of Parliament for Brampton North. The announcement by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons regarding the credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen are deeply troubling. All Canadians deserve to feel safe in their communities, and that is the highest priority of our government. As the Prime Minister described, our top priorities at this time are that our law enforcement and security agencies ensure the continued safety of all Canadians, and that all steps be taken to hold the perpetrators of this murder to account. I am thankful for the opportunity to address the recent allegations surrounding the death of the Sikh community leader, Hardeep Singh Nijjar, particularly in relation to the RCMP's involvement in this investigation. Mr. Nijjar was a husband, a father, a businessman and a community leader. Only weeks before his assassination, he was at UBC attending his son's graduation, where I saw him with his family. He was smiling, as a proud father would seeing their son earn such a prestigious degree. On Sunday, June 18, it was Father's Day. After spending time with his family, he did what he would do every evening, which was to go to Guru Nanak Sikh Gurdwara and serve the congregation, not only as the president, but also in physically helping to build the new hall adjacent to the gurdwara. As he was leaving the gurdwara, Mr. Nijjar was shot and killed in cold blood in Surrey, British Columbia. The community was shocked, and they wanted answers. Concerned MPs immediately met with the then minister of public safety. They were assured that no stone would be left unturned, and that the law enforcement agencies would investigate this with full resources at its disposal. Yesterday, when Prime Minister Trudeau announced that there are credible allegations linking agents of the—

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The Chair

Sep/19/23 9:13:17 p.m.
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Members need to remember that we can only call other members by titles or riding names, so maybe the parliamentary secretary could back up in his speech a bit. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Randeep Sarai

Sep/19/23 9:13:27 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, yesterday, the Prime Minister announced that there are credible allegations linking agents of the government of India to this killing. The RCMP continues to investigate this murder. Investigators are working diligently to gather information and evidence to bring justice to Mr. Nijjar and his family. To ensure the integrity of the RCMP investigation and those involved, I am not in a position to discuss specifics. Those responsible will be held to account. The implications of foreign actors actively pursuing targets in Canada poses a significant threat to Canadian sovereignty and the safety of our citizens. It is of great concern. Any involvement by a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of Canadian sovereignty. India's involvement in the extraterritorial killing of a Canadian on Canadian soil will not be tolerated. We are engaging with our Indian counterparts at many levels on this issue and expect their full co-operation in ensuring both that those responsible for this egregious act face consequences and that this never happens again. Given the seriousness of the situation, we have also engaged with our closest allies on this matter. I know that many Canadians, particularly members of Canada's Indian diaspora community, are feeling angry and perhaps frightened right now. Rest assured that Canada is a country governed by the rule of law, and Canadian law enforcement authorities will take all necessary steps to hold perpetrators to account. CSIS, the RCMP and the broader security and intelligence community are working closely with other government departments, international partners and local police forces to ensure the safety and security of Canadians at home and abroad. As the member of Parliament for Surrey Centre, I will continue to engage with Canadian communities to hear their concerns and work with them to foster trust and open communication channels. Public safety remains a top priority for our government.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Sep/19/23 9:15:51 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I would like to first congratulate my colleague on his new appointment as parliamentary secretary. I also want to thank him for bringing forward a more personal story and perspective on Mr. Nijjar. That is very important. Tonight we have talked a lot about how shocking it is that a Canadian citizen was killed on Canadian soil. I know that the member has been on the foreign affairs committee and has a strong understanding of the human rights abuses that are taking place under the Modi government in India right now. I wonder if the member could speak a bit about what Canada could do, how Canada could respond to some of those human rights abuses that are happening outside of Canada, in India, at the moment?

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Mr. Randeep Sarai

Sep/19/23 9:16:46 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the member for Edmonton Strathcona has been a big champion of human rights, wherever they may be. This is something that comes to me as the member of Parliament for Surrey Centre, a very diverse riding, where I hear complaints from Dalits or those who have been subjugated in very inappropriate ways in India, who have faced human rights violations. Christians and Christian minorities, particularly, have been facing gross violations. A lot of tribal people in some of the more rural areas have faced similar fates. Muslims in many parts of India have faced great atrocities and challenges. Women all over the country have faced those challenges. Canada's role is to always make that a priority whenever it deals with foreign affairs matters. We need like-minded allies to also support that. When the world speaks as one voice, I think people have to listen. Canada, which touts being a democracy, should be answerable to other democracies around the world and should uphold those rights. That is how we will get that done, just like members of Parliament in this House today have shown unity, especially the NDP and the Bloc, in condemning this action by the Indian government.

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Hon. Gary Anandasangaree (Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations, Lib.)

Sep/19/23 9:18:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister's statement yesterday has really shaken many young people. I have been speaking to many young people with South Asian backgrounds and it is very troubling to see how hurt they are today. Can you maybe give a sense to young people, especially those who may be watching, of what they should be doing or how they can overcome some of the challenges they may be facing today or some of the questions they may have today that really shatter who they are? With something like this happening in a place like Canada, how can they feel safe, how do we make sure they are protected and that they can feel very much at home in their country?

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