44th Parl. 1st Sess.
October 16, 2023 11:00AM
- Oct/16/23 8:38:17 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, all week, since the events in Israel as a result of the terrorist attack by Hamas, I have been saying that we have to be able to condemn without the insertion of the word “but”. The leader of the NDP just began his speech, empathetic, so it seemed, to the victims of the terrorist attack by Hamas, only to insert the word “but”. Perhaps I misunderstood him, but it sounded to me that he was suggesting that Israel is committing or on the verge of committing genocide. Genocide, of course, is the intent to eradicate a people. Therefore, my question for the leader of the NDP is twofold: One, does he believe that Israel has a right to self-defence; and two, does he believe that the current reaction by the Israeli government in its response to a terrorist organization with anti-Semitic and genocidal objectives is revenge?
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- Oct/16/23 8:40:47 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I will ask again. The leader of the NDP used words like “revenge”, “genocide” and “collective punishment”. It sounds like he has walked those back after his prepared remarks.
I am going to ask him one more time if he believes, and this is a serious matter, that Israel is committing or is about to commit a genocide. Yes or no?
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- Oct/16/23 8:44:40 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I was very concerned by what I heard before. The Jewish people were the victims of the greatest genocide in human history, the Holocaust. Israel is the only majority Jewish state in the world. It sounded to me very much like he accused the state of Israel of being on the verge of committing a genocide.
I would like to ask, yes or no, do you believe that Israel is committing or is about to commit genocide?
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- Oct/16/23 9:05:51 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I remember fondly the member opposite and I would debate one another on a local Ottawa campus radio station some years ago. Since then he arrived here much sooner than I and made important contributions to our public discourse.
The definition of genocide has a particularly important adjective: deliberate. I think of the innocent lives lost, of Palestinians and Palestinian children, that my hon. colleague from Edmonton Strathcona was right to point out in regard to the tragic nature of how it came to be.
I would suggest the reason we are seeing such loss of life is as a result of the common enemy to the Israeli people and the Palestinian people, and that is Hamas. Hamas is the enemy of Palestine and of Israel. This is something that we must be incredibly mindful of and steadfast in our repetition of as we engage in this debate.
To answer my colleague's question specifically, revenge is not a response to an organization whose fundamental pursuit and objective is to eradicate people from the earth.
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- Oct/16/23 9:09:22 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the collective punishment is the collective punishment that Hamas is creating. The conditions that Hamas is creating is collective punishment on its own people and the people of Israel.
I would ask my hon. colleague to reflect throughout this debate and afterward on what would happen should there be a ceasefire. Of course we want an end to the conflict. Of course we want to end the loss of innocent lives. If Hamas were able to continue, it would rebuild and it would rebuild stronger. It would attack again because its objective is the eradication of the Jewish people from the face of the earth.
Although I have a deep appreciation for the moral objective that members from the NDP feel they bring to the conversation, it is not a pragmatic, practical or realistic way to deal with a terrorist organization hell-bent on genocide.
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- Oct/16/23 10:01:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague works with me on the Canada-China committee, and I actually was in his riding recently.
He spoke a bit about international law and the right of Israel to defend itself. We know that former International Criminal Court prosecutor Ocampo has said that there is potential for what is happening in Gaza to be a humanitarian genocide. Would the member be open to having all crimes committed at this time investigated by the ICC or the ICJ?
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