44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 7, 2023 10:00AM
- Nov/7/23 10:48:37 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague just mentioned that, according to the report of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, taxing large profits would bring in $4.2 billion, but for 2023 to 2028, a five-year period, it is roughly $1.5 billion yearly.
Heat pumps also require ventilation ducts. In Quebec, people will also need a furnace, because a heat pump will not work when it is colder than -12°C. This amounts to between $8,000 and $20,000 per installation. There are 11 million low-income people in Canada, and even more middle-income earners.
Averaging out the cost, for the free heat pump alone, we get $77 billion for this measure, along with one to pay for it that would cost $1 billion yearly. How does that work?
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- Nov/7/23 10:49:32 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am quite surprised to hear that the Bloc Québécois is worried that we cannot tax multi-millionaires, big companies, oil companies, banks, insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies in order to give people practical help.
I already have a heat pump at home. It works very well and is very efficient. The Liberal program has provided 438 heat pumps nationwide in two years. It is completely ineffective.
We are going to have a real program that will be financed by seeking money where it is found, so that we can help Quebeckers.
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- Nov/7/23 11:19:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, he asked a really good question and I want to answer it, if they can stop heckling me.
The answer to the question is because we understand oil is the dirtiest form, we understand it is three to four times more expensive for Canadians across the country and we want to provide relief to people so they can transition away and toward heat pumps. By the way, the member brought up heat pumps. I am very glad to hear Manitoba is currently sitting down with the federal government to work out a program where Manitoba can get on board with that same program being used in Atlantic Canada.
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- Nov/7/23 12:17:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to go back to yesterday's motion. I think today's motion reflects, in good part, what took place with the vote yesterday.
One thing that is getting lost in this debate is the issue of the environment and the valuable role that heat pumps will play going forward. It is easy to say that we should get rid of this tax or that tax and so forth, but it overshadows the importance of good, solid government policy on heat pumps. Could the member share his thoughts on that?
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- Nov/7/23 12:18:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as always, the question from my colleague opposite is relevant.
I have not taken a position against the tax. I do not want to leave any room for confusion here. I also did not say that heat pumps are useless. I said that heat pumps still need financing and that the tax, in its current form, will not be affected by a goods and services tax reduction. I therefore did not take a position on whether the tax is relevant or not, but rather on the measure used to mitigate its impact.
I do not believe it will achieve the desired effect.
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- Nov/7/23 1:24:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.
The member spoke at length about heat pumps. Can he please tell this House, in 10 or 15 seconds, how heat pumps work in, say, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba?
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- Nov/7/23 1:24:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that extreme cold climate heat pumps work in Canada. There are examples of them working all the way up as far north as one can get.
They are actually very effective, far more efficient in terms of the use of energy. Really, I cannot think of a better solution for wider adoption that Canadians can take advantage of to get those cost savings on their energy bill.
The member opposite does not seem to understand the technology. Maybe he should do his homework.
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Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of discussion this morning about heat pumps. I have not yet heard anybody bring up the installation of heat pumps. There is a portion that goes outside the house and a portion that goes inside the house, and then there are pipes underground. Not that long ago, I introduced a private member's bill, Bill C-241, regarding a deduction of travel expenses for skilled trades. As we need heat pumps across the country, we will not have people to install them.
All but one Liberal member voted against Bill C-241. The NDP was good enough to vote for it. Would the member agree with me that, indeed, the Liberals should have voted for Bill C-241?
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Mr. Speaker, Bill C-241, as I understand it, was an NDP bill before the member, thankfully, took it up and brought it forward again and it was passed. That is what we should be doing: supporting tradespeople across the country who have to travel. Any other business people can charge their travel expenses.
As the member mentioned, we will need more tradespeople to do all of this work. Not only do heat pumps have to be installed, but homes also need to be retrofitted to make sure they are properly insulated. That is one of the first things that need to be done. I just finished doing that in my house, and now I am going to turn my thoughts to the heat pump part. We will need tradespeople for that, and sometimes it is difficult to find enough tradespeople because they are doing a lot of work in this regard.
Yes, we should be training tradespeople to do that. There is a program for it at Okanagan College in Penticton. It is one of the leading sustainable building trades programs in the country. We have to support people going into those programs and then once they come out.
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- Nov/7/23 1:38:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague, who sits next to me and often discusses things with me. I would like to ask him a very pragmatic question.
The proposal before us today seems well intentioned. Unfortunately, the numbers do not add up. The estimated cost of giving heat pumps to everyone would be at least $75 billion, if not $100 billion. The proposed tax might generate up to $1 billion. Where will the rest of the money come from?
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- Nov/7/23 1:39:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we just had a conversation about tradespeople and how important it is to have enough of them. This is not going to happen in one year; it will happen over a number of years.
I would have to do some quick math, but, yes, $4 billion can buy only maybe 400,000 heat pumps. There might be three million households in Canada, so it would take maybe five or 10 years to get through the program, but we have to start it now. This is a very common-sense, easy-to-understand approach with a funding mechanism, a clear goal and clear benefits for all Canadians.
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- Nov/7/23 2:02:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the people of my riding, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, are deeply committed to their children's future and to environmental responsibility.
The fact remains that 450,000 households in Quebec are still heating with oil, an expensive method that is harmful to the environment. The cost of acquiring and installing heat pumps, which are cleaner and more cost-effective, is a barrier for many Quebeckers, especially in rural and remote communities. Although the $10,000 in direct assistance provided by the oil to heat pump program is commendable, it is clear that additional assistance is needed.
I applaud the government's commitment to increasing its assistance and to working with Quebec to provide the additional support our families need for sustainable heating solutions. Unlike the Conservatives, who have no plan to protect us from the climate crisis, we are committed to making the transition to a clean economy in a way that leaves no one behind.
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- Nov/7/23 2:08:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, families in Châteauguay—Lacolle are very aware of the climate crisis and they want to act responsibly to protect the environment. We know that one good option is to use heat pumps rather than oil for home heating because they are greener and more cost-effective.
However, the cost of a heat pump may stop some households, particularly those with lower incomes, from making the switch. I therefore commend the federal government for the direct assistance it is providing to help people switch from oil to heat pumps. This program has already proven to be effective in my riding.
I am pleased to learn that Quebec is continuing to work with our government to provide the additional support that families need to transition to sustainable heating solutions. Unlike the Conservatives, who have no plan to protect us from the climate crisis, we are committed to making a responsible and just transition to a clean economy that supports all Canadians.
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- Nov/7/23 2:55:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, even as my constituents weather high prices and tough economic times, they remain deeply concerned about climate change. That is why Yukoners welcome actions from the government to reduce fossil fuel emissions while conserving energy and reducing costs. Contrary to a common misconception, Yukon-based studies have shown that heat pumps can operate efficiently in very cold climates. The Prime Minister has invited all interested provinces and territories to join the codelivery program for heat pumps.
Can the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources update the House on the progress in bringing this program to my riding in the Yukon?
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- Nov/7/23 2:56:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I do want to thank my colleague from Yukon for his tireless advocacy for his constituents.
Heat pumps have been well-tested and adopted in northern climates for years. That is why we are working to deploy more cold climate heat pumps across the territory to reduce ongoing energy bills and to reduce emissions. In fact, heating oil actually serves over 50% of the population in Yukon, making it a pressing issue of affordability and climate.
I had a conversation recently with the Premier of Yukon. He is extremely interested in moving forward on a joint delivery, and I expect we will have good things to say very soon.
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- Nov/7/23 3:18:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, 85,000 British Columbians still rely on oil to heat their homes, an extremely polluting fuel that is up to four times as expensive as natural gas.
Recently, the Government of Canada announced a new affordability package that would help Canadians ditch expensive and polluting oil furnaces for heat pumps. This would save them money on their home heating bills and fight climate change.
The Premier of British Columbia, David Eby, was seen at the premiers meeting, proudly donning an “I love heat pumps” shirt.
Can the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources provide an update to the House on the progress being made to bring this important affordability measure to British Columbians?
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- Nov/7/23 4:45:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think there is some confusion in regard to the positioning that the NDP had taken in regard to the vote from yesterday. When we take a look at the move towards trying to reduce the reliance on oil in order to heat homes, the national program that was announced by the federal government would, in fact, incentivize people to move away from oil to heat their homes.
I am wondering if the member could explain why the NDP does not seem to recognize the true value of encouraging people to convert to home heating pumps.
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