SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 265 - Dec/11/23

Dec/11/23 7:37:43 p.m.
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Madam Chair, in my comments tonight around Indigenous Services Canada, I do not think I complained even once about the amount that was being spent. What members heard me challenge was how the money is being spent and the outcomes we are getting as a country for that investment. I and the Conservative Party are all for lifting up indigenous people and improving the quality of life of indigenous people across our country. I support that, 100%. My colleague knows that I support that. For four years, I have stood up for that in the House. My point is not the amount of spending; my point is the quality of the spending. We actually need to invest in the right things. We need to hold a failing department accountable so it actually achieves the outcomes and targets it sets for itself. There has to be some accountability. Somebody has to hold these people to account. The minister and the government are not doing that.

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Mr. Eric Melillo (Kenora, CPC)

Dec/11/23 7:39:00 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I thank the member for, as always, his advocacy for indigenous peoples right across the country. I want to pick up on the very last topic. The member spoke about the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report, which showed that the increase in spending that we have seen under the government has not led to a similar increase in the ability of Indigenous Services Canada to meet the targets it set for itself. Can the member speak more to his frustration with that? We have a government that seems to measure its success based on how much money it can spend. If there is an issue, it says it spent this much money on it so it is getting the job done, but clearly, if it is missing its targets and it is not getting the job done, it is not improving the lives of indigenous peoples across the country. Does the member have further comments in that regard?

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Mr. Gary Vidal

Dec/11/23 7:39:51 p.m.
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Madam Chair, as I said in my comments, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has made it clear that there is a lack of accountability and that the investments being made are not being made in a way that is improving the lives of indigenous people across our country. That is what we advocate for. If we go over my record in Hansard, we will see the word “outcomes” in my interventions, both at committee and in the House, probably hundreds of times. I am all about our getting outcomes. I am all about accountability. I am all about getting results. I believe that is how we are going to make the investments in indigenous people across the country that will result in an improved quality of life and improved standard of living. That is how we are going to get it done.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Dec/11/23 7:40:55 p.m.
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Madam Chair, by the sounds of it, the member has done a great deal of learning when it comes to indigenous people. I do not have enough time to lecture the members of this place on the difference between “responsibility” and “partnership”. We have a treaty with many indigenous nations, and it requires us to fulfill that in a good way. However, when we hear language like the member spoke of in terms of the lack of results for funding, it sounds reminiscent of a quote: “Canada's aboriginals need to learn the value of hard work more than they need compensation for the abuse suffered in residential schools.” The member who said that was the member for Carleton, the leader of the Conservative Party today. Does the member condemn that statement and stand with indigenous people?

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Mr. Gary Vidal

Dec/11/23 7:41:38 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I am not responsible for the comments other people made 15 years ago; that is not on me. An hon. member: Oh, oh! Mr. Gary Vidal: Madam Chair, look at my record. I have advocated for indigenous people across the country consistently. I serve a riding that has 71.3% indigenous people, and I have advocated for them through COVID. I have advocated for them to have economic opportunities that will actually solve the poverty and the challenges they face in their communities, and I will continue to do that. Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

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The Deputy Chair

Dec/11/23 7:42:11 p.m.
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Order. If members have questions and comments, they should wait until the appropriate time. They should not be heckling the member when he is speaking. The hon. member for Edmonton Griesbach.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Dec/11/23 7:42:24 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is all well and good to talk about a comment someone made 15 years ago, but when the member who made the comment is the leader of a national party in our country, and the member cannot even stand to condemn it, that is truly shameful. I mean that in the sincerest way, because it is a matter of racism and condemning racism. Whether it happened 15 years ago or today, I would hope that the member would find the courage to condemn racism today and then. Does the member condemn the statements made by the member for Carleton in regard to indigenous people's needing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

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Mr. Gary Vidal

Dec/11/23 7:43:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, if I recall, and it is very clear in the record, that member apologized for what he said 15 years ago. I would ask whether the member, in his youth, ever said anything he regretted and whether he wants to stand up and apologize for it.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Dec/11/23 7:43:25 p.m.
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Madam Chair, on a point of order, it is important that we respect people in this place, and I spoke to a true fact that I repeated and quoted into Hansard. The member is making allegations or assumptions that there could be something in my past that I need to apologize for. I hope we can have decorum and respect when talking about facts in this place, and I would ask the member to reflect on his own statements he has made, in order to better understand how racism truly works in this place.

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All Topics

The Deputy Chair

Dec/11/23 7:43:51 p.m.
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I appreciate the point, but I believe it was more a point of debate. Does the hon. member have a point of order?

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Mr. Gary Vidal

Dec/11/23 7:44:06 p.m.
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Madam Chair, no. I just wanted to respond.

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The Deputy Chair

Dec/11/23 7:44:11 p.m.
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It was not another question, but a point of order being raised by the hon. member. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Dec/11/23 7:44:22 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I will be sharing my time with my dedicated colleague from Shefford. I would also like to take this opportunity to wish the people of Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou and my colleagues a happy holiday. I am very pleased to rise in the House, especially to participate in this take-note debate on indigenous services. Allow me to give my colleagues a general idea of the size of my riding. It currently includes 14 Inuit communities, nine Cree communities and two Algonquin communities. For decades, the Bloc Québécois has proven itself to be an ally and a voice for indigenous peoples. The Quebec nation has always tried to engage in nation-to-nation relations with indigenous communities. The Bloc Québécois works with indigenous nations to strengthen and guarantee their inherent rights at the federal level. For us, reconciliation is the core of this relationship. Reconciliation can take many forms: cultural, financial, political and economic. It enables a gradual end to the discriminatory and racist political system developed and implemented by Canada, which wanted the first nations to disappear. Some action has been taken in the name of reconciliation, but still not enough. In recent years, we have had the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada and the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Governments have set up several commissions, and a few commitments followed. However, there is no denying that there is still a great deal of work to be done. In the most recent supply votes, most of the funding for the Department of Indigenous Services was allocated to the health and housing sectors. One could congratulate the government for finally tackling these issues head-on, but the reality is that it has been shamefully neglecting them for years. Indigenous communities have always been hit hard by the housing crisis. The poor quality of housing, overcrowding, lack of services and all the other interrelated problems are still there, and they are not going away. It is quite the opposite, in fact. These are major public health issues, but this government never seems to grasp the true extent of this crisis. Speaking of public health, the government made a promise to lift all boil water advisories in indigenous communities by 2021. As of December 10, there were still 32 in effect. These 32 boil water advisories affect thousands of indigenous people across Canada, keeping them in a constant state of insecurity. That is not dignity. That is not successful reconciliation. If this government were to put a little more energy and investment into the issues that affect indigenous people, and less energy and resources into concocting policies that interfere in provincial jurisdictions, the situation might be quite different. This government's actions suggest that reconciliation is more of a public relations issue and a communications exercise than a matter of concrete measures and policies. It is disappointing. Reconciliation is an ongoing process founded on respect. We cannot and must not forget the past, but we are living in the here and now. That is why we need to take action here and now. We must consult and communicate, of course, but above all, we must take action. We know that consultations are difficult for the government, especially when it comes to indigenous affairs, but that is the only way we will move forward. Reconciliation does not mean shirking responsibility. A nation wishes to break free and make its own decisions, but first that nation must have all the tools it needs to do it properly. Otherwise, it is not a question of freeing communities from the yoke of the federal government, but rather the federal government shirking its responsibilities. These responsibilities go back a long way. The federal government owes them that much. The Bloc Québécois is once again reaffirming its commitment to forever be an ally and a voice for indigenous peoples. We are looking to the future. We are looking to reconciliation and asking for immediate action.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Dec/11/23 7:49:40 p.m.
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Madam Chair, one thing of note is how the department has doubled in size in the last 10 years, from about 4,000 to almost 8,000, and the budget has increased significantly as well. The Liberals seem to always judge success by how much money they are spending on things. We see that the budget has gone up and the number of employees for the department has gone up, yet the Auditor General pointed out that they have not made any progress on this. Would the member agree with me that we are obviously not getting good value for money here?

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé

Dec/11/23 7:50:23 p.m.
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Madam Chair, my colleague is partially right because the government is not moving. Where are we with respect to the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's 94 calls to action? There is no implementation. Then there is the symbolic day of September 30, for example. Is reconciliation broken? We wonder. Why does the government always wait until something frustrating happens to indigenous people? It is incomprehensible. We need action now.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Dec/11/23 7:51:01 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I have sat in committee with the member, and I do appreciate when she speaks up. I appreciate that the member has reminded the House that her riding has 14 Inuit communities and nine Cree communities. My concern is that their voices are not being heard. Can she share with the House how many of those communities she has visited to make sure that their indigenous voices are being heard by the Bloc since she was elected?

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé

Dec/11/23 7:51:46 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I really enjoy working with my colleague in committee. Let me say that I represent several communities in northern Quebec in Nunavik, Lac‑Simon, Kitcisakik, Eastmain, Mistissini, Kuujjuaq. I have had meetings with these communities. Of course I have not had the time to participate in all these meetings, but the important thing is that they are there and I am there for them. We work together, nation to nation.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen

Dec/11/23 7:52:28 p.m.
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Madam Chair, the member mentioned in her speech water on reserve. I remember in the 2015 election that the Liberals promised this would not be a problem after 2019. I am wondering if she has more comments about that.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé

Dec/11/23 7:52:50 p.m.
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Madam Chair, it is still an issue. There are reserves in my riding that still do not have water, particularly in Kitcisakik. These people have been waiting for years to have water. The federal government's delay is incomprehensible. We wonder why this is being delayed when the federal government is giving a lot of money to communities across Canada and Quebec. What is going on? Why is the government not listening to what the communities are asking for and what they are saying they need?

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

Dec/11/23 7:53:28 p.m.
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Madam Chair, I want to thank my colleague. The member talked about consultation and right now, Indigenous Services Canada, or ISC, has been changing funding formulas for education without even talking to the nations that are impacted, so it is hard for them to continue doing their programming with new formulas. It has a huge impact on children, of course. On ISC engagement with indigenous communities, first nations, Inuit and Métis people, does the member agree that it should be an absolute requirement to obtain their free, prior and informed consent before changing any funding formulas in all areas of service delivery?

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