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Mr. Mario Beaulieu (La Pointe-de-l'Île, BQ)

Feb/6/24 4:15:54 p.m.
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Re: Bill S-9 Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, the Bloc Québécois agrees with the principle of the motion. We spoke out against rising auto theft at the port of Montreal before the Conservatives. We think they are taking liberties with the logic underpinning today's motion. They are taking shortcuts that distort reality. For example, claiming that Bill C‑5 is responsible for the increase in auto theft since 2015 is clearly false, because the bill came into force at the end of 2022, and 2022 was a record year for auto theft. They say they do not agree with the six-month minimum sentence for a third offence, but they are the ones who brought it in with section 333.1, which was added to Bill S‑9 in 2010 under the Conservative government. We do agree that the Port of Montreal and the Canada Border Services Agency do not have the resources to really check containers and do their job. I would like to know my colleague's thoughts on that.

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/6/24 4:17:01 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5 Bill C-325

Madam Speaker, as I said in my speech, the Bloc Québécois members initially voted in favour of Bill C-5, but then realized that it was creating problems. They changed their minds and supported my bill, Bill C-325, and I thank them once again. As far as resources are concerned, the Leader of the Opposition made our case in Montreal this morning. I was with him. We went to the port of Montreal to make a clear, costed announcement that really showed how we could invest properly in equipping the ports and the Canada Border Services Agency. One part of the announcement was about purchasing equipment to scan containers, while at the same time, saving money by eliminating wasteful spending on consultants and things like ArriveCAN. Basically, all these kinds of expenses are completely useless.

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Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, NDP)

Feb/6/24 4:17:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it seems, upon observation of the Conservative Party these days, that it is guided in its policy by two principles: one, it has to rhyme, which is why we see the words “axe” and “tax” and “bail” and “jail”, and, two, it has to fit on a bumper sticker. This is a fundamentally unserious way of dealing with a very serious issue, and I will give a clear example. My colleague asked a question of the Leader of the Opposition and instead of answering her directly, he switched tactics and attacked her because this is an unserious party. New Democrats put forward a very reasonable amendment to this motion and I wonder why the Conservatives do not think we should have a requirement that manufacturers improve the security on the vehicles they manufacture and why we should not have measures in place to crack down on organized crime and money laundering that is key to auto theft. Why will the Conservatives not agree to that very reasonable amendment to their motion?

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Feb/6/24 4:18:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, quite honestly, I do not know what my colleague is talking about. I am not familiar with the amendment. I do not want to give him an empty answer or say something stupid. If I had an answer, I would give it to him, but I do not.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Feb/6/24 4:19:08 p.m.
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It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Public Services and Procurement; the hon. member for Calgary Centre, Carbon Pricing; the hon. member for Kenora, Indigenous Affairs.

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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.)

Feb/6/24 4:19:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will take this opportunity to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with the member for St. Catharines. We are discussing an important matter today. It is interesting the Conservatives have decided to bring up in this way, through an opposition motion, rather than putting serious and constructive measures on the table whether at committee or in other places. Be that as it may, we are discussing it. I agree with the fact that car theft is an issue in this country. It needs to be taken very seriously, and we are acting in that vein. I will mention a little later the national summit that is upcoming. This is a very good way and a example of co-operation that meets the moment in the regard. What we also see is a need for us to listen to Canadians and understand where they are coming from on this issue. There is a natural connection, a very logical understanding, that says government has a fundamental responsibility to be there for people and to protect them against many things, and that includes securing their property. When theft happens, there is a violation of that trust. Anytime that takes place in our communities, and I have talked to constituents who have unfortunately experienced this, governments have to answer. It is not only the federal government that has to answer but all levels of government have to come together. I hope to see more of that in the coming days, months and beyond as we talk more about this issue. We rely at the federal level on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It works to counter organized crimes. It works with international and domestic partners in this, of course. If it is the police of jurisdiction where car theft takes place, and we know the RCMP does have this role through different parts of the country, it is the police force on the ground, investigating those thefts. Fundamentally, it plays, and this is something not terribly understood by the wider public, a key role in information sharing, gathering that vital data with respect to auto theft and sharing it with local police so investigations can take place and that outcomes to theft can benefit the victim of crime. We have the CBSA that works at our border to do many things. In respect to auto theft, it intercepts shipments that may contain stolen cars. That is fundamental work. I thank the RCMP, the CBSA and their public servants for carrying it out. Where I find difficulty, and I alluded to this in the opening remarks I made but will repeat it here, is in the hypocrisy of the Conservatives' approach. They are well within their right to raise an opposition motion of this kind, but they do so with a record. When they were in government, they made enormous cuts the member for Saint John—Rothesay brought up just now, that devastated the CBSA, cuts we are still feeling the effects of. A thousand public servants were cut from the CBSA. What the Conservatives have made clear is they would introduce further cuts. In fact, if elected again they made clear they want to cut another 400 jobs. They want to go back to the failed promise of theirs in the lead-up to the 2015 election that would have seen 400 public servants leave the CBSA. I am not sure how that makes the country more safe. Everybody has a role to play here. Every level of government has a role to play. At the federal level we do rely on the CBSA, and when cuts take place obviously the country is less safe. That is why it was so important for the federal government to restore those jobs that were lost. Conservatives want to introduce other cuts as well. Members will indulge me here for a moment, but it is not out of place for me to say that in keeping with their approach to rushing to a balanced budget, it is important to ask them what else they would cut. They want to cut the CBSA. They want to cut funding to the RCMP, no doubt. There are pensions, employment insurance and funding for dental care and child care. All of this comes together and is part of an unfortunate pattern that puts austerity at the very heart of the Conservative agenda. We have to be non-partisan on these issues. I certainly believe that and will continue to believe that, but I think I can be forgiven for saying in this debate there is a place for us to look at the record of the Conservative Party members when they were in government to understand the sincerity of their current approach and the sincerity they have, or do not have, frankly, when dealing with this very important issue, an issue every member of Parliament is affected by because their constituents are affected by it. I will not stand here and say I have not heard about this issue in my community. Of course I have, and that is why the government's approach to convene an effort at co-operation, and the summit is an example of that, is quite important. I mentioned the RCMP already, but I think I will repeat it, because along with discussions of auto theft comes, at the federal level, certainly a natural focus on the CBSA, but also the RCMP. However, the Conservatives cut funding for the RCMP and they never like to own up to that. I think it is very important to understand that the party across the way, the party that has presented this opposition motion, the party that so often wraps itself in the flag and a discourse of law and order, in fact acted counter to law and order, and therefore counter to the needs, interests and concerns of Canadians. When this Liberal government came into office in 2015, it supported the CBSA and restored those jobs that were lost, as I said, and supported the work of the RCMP, and will continue to do so. The police play a vital role in our communities where the RCMP is the police of jurisdiction. Obviously, that has even more impact with respect to what we can say at the federal level about the importance of the organization. However, it is also important to recognize, as I said before, the need to summon together different parties: the federal government, provincial governments, municipal governments, the RCMP, the CBSA and the private sector, of course, which is also fundamental, because the private sector does have a role to play in all of this. I heard my colleague across the way in the NDP raise a good question about the obligations that could exist on the part of the auto companies to help in all of this. I think it is a question that is quite relevant. I did not hear my colleague opposite in the Conservative Party actually answer the question, but it does merit further consideration: What further role can the private sector play in this? It is not just about government responding. In fact, if we are going to see a meaningful and effective outcome in all of this, the private sector will have to be front and centre not only in discussions but certainly in the action to follow. In closing, I very much hope that we do see action come out of what is a pan-Canadian approach. This is the summit that will be taking place in just a few days. I know that there is great interest in this right across the country. I saw the federal government combined with the provincial government in Ontario move ahead with the summit, or to certainly announce it, and what do we see? We see a serious discussion materializing at the federal, provincial and municipal levels following this development, and I will be watching as will other MPs. We have more work to do, but I look forward to this evolving and taking part wherever I can to help the government and therefore Canadians and my constituents in responding to this critical issue at this time.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Feb/6/24 4:27:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I thank my hon. colleague for his speech, and I commend him for the fact that he did not read a speech that may or not have been prepared by someone else. After eight years of this Liberal government, we have crime that is essentially, for all intents and purposes, out of control. What we have seen from this government is a lack of leadership, and here is why. We are always, as a country, responding to problems, and here we have another time that this government is responding. However, there has been zero proactivity when it comes to crime or when it comes to people on bail. We wait until bad things happen and then we react. On auto theft, we wait until bad things happen and then we react. Here we are again with a summit after auto theft is up over 34%. Is this just not emblematic of a government that is tired after eight years and has lost the plot?

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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos

Feb/6/24 4:28:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, first of all, I will say to my hon. colleague that I did prepare the speech myself. I am not sure if his notes came from the opposition leader's office, but I did see that he spoke off the cuff and therefore I am going to make the assumption, I will be charitable, that he came up with the question, and as a former prosecutor, I certainly hope that he did. In fact, to go back to that, the member was a prosecutor and certainly would have seen the effects of the Conservative Party's cuts with respect to the CBSA and the RCMP, and also the many social cuts that it made, such as cuts to various programs that youth relied on. I think that is relevant in the discussion too. I will repeat that it is a party that wraps itself in the flag, wraps itself in a discourse of law and order, but does not present any serious solution to what is admittedly a serious issue, a serious problem in this country, and is not to be taken seriously at all.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Feb/6/24 4:29:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, once again, we have a situation where one party is pointing fingers at the other, and then that party just points fingers back. One says it has a better solution, and the other says the opposite. Eventually, everyone points fingers at our party. That said, prevention is always a good thing. Have mistakes been made in the past? Yes, mistakes may have been made in the past when prevention measures were eliminated. We know that these prevention measures were eliminated. We know that these are good measures, including adding more CBSA officers. That is a good preventive measure. Why not implement that right away, without waiting for the results of another meeting of discussions and consultations? We are aware of possible solutions. We can move forward. Why not go ahead and follow some of the same approaches that have worked in the past?

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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos

Feb/6/24 4:30:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, our colleague is wondering why we need to have a meeting now and why the government is taking this approach. It is interesting to hear a Bloc member say that, because the Bloc is always talking in the House about the importance of co-operation between the federal, provincial—Quebec in particular—and municipal governments throughout Canada. In this case, however, she is saying that we need to take immediate action. It does not make sense. I think that we have to engage all levels that are involved in the issue in order to come to a solution.

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Mr. Alistair MacGregor (Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, NDP)

Feb/6/24 4:32:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I just want to touch on an issue that was brought up by the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. He was talking about being proactive versus reactive. My issue is that most of this motion deals with the Criminal Code, which is fundamentally a very reactive piece of legislation, in that it is brought to bear after the fact. I have a greater interest in being more proactive in heading off the problem before it becomes too large an issue. We know that people do not just wake up one day and decide to steal a car. There are a lot of different circumstances and a lot of provisions in the Criminal Code that allow judges to mete out the appropriate sentence based on the individual crime. What could the government be doing more of, proactively, to prevent the crime from happening in the first place rather than relying solely on a reactive element like the Criminal Code?

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Mr. Peter Fragiskatos

Feb/6/24 4:32:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague, because he always offers constructive ideas and has something important to say every time he speaks. I know that he has spoken in the past about the importance of making sure that we are investing in youth programs as a preventative measure. I think that has a place in this conversation but I also take very seriously the idea that criminals should be punished for the crimes that they commit. Therefore, I follow with great interest what the summit will produce on that score. The government did move ahead with legislation that did advance that. I want to see more on that.

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Mr. Chris Bittle (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities, Lib.)

Feb/6/24 4:33:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I only hope that I can speak half as well as the other Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing, Infrastructure and Communities. That is my goal. It is aspirational. It is a very high bar, but I will do my best. We all know auto theft is impacting more and more Canadians. In doing so, it is undermining public confidence and feelings of safety. A serious conversation is best needed to address this issue, as we owe it to our constituents to ensure we propose a meaningful impact for solutions in this area. That is why I was disappointed yesterday to see unserious proposals coming from the Leader of the Opposition. His alleged reforms would be to do things that are already being done and would have no practical effect. We know that criminal law is not always the best solution here. We are focused on improving enforcement and working with manufacturers to increase security for vehicles. This Thursday, we are bringing together federal, provincial and municipal governments, law enforcement and industry to discuss how we can combat auto theft. The Conservatives, and I think the Bloc just momentarily, are saying these are empty gestures, but it is an understanding of the complexity of this issue. The Conservatives think that, magically, we will change the Criminal Code, and this will disappear. They have even said they would repeal some of the provisions we have brought forward, which I believe have been to actually increase sentencing for auto theft, which again shows how unserious and slogan-based the Conservative Party is. However, we are bringing together all people at the table. The face of auto theft varies from place to place in Canada, and what we know about auto theft is different from what it may have been 30 or even 10 years ago. According to available data, Ontario, Quebec and Alberta are the jurisdictions most impacted by auto theft, but the circumstances facing these jurisdictions differ. For instance, Alberta vehicles are being stolen for parts or resale domestically after having their vehicle identification numbers, or VINs, replaced. In Ontario and Quebec, we know that certain cars are targeted for theft so that they can be shipped to overseas markets in Africa or the Middle East. This activity is mining the pockets of transnational organized crime. Make no mistake; transnational organized crime activity is big business. I was astounded to read about the scale. Even in data reported by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime from 2009, it was estimated that $870 billion, annually, was being generated by transnational organized crime. We can all imagine that number is much larger today. That number is staggering and far exceeds the GDP of most countries around the world. We need to think about what that means. Money in the hands of organized crime, including money generated by auto theft, can be used to facilitate other criminal activity, like drug trafficking, people trafficking and migrant smuggling. Therefore, in the fall economic statement we proposed a number of measures to combat money laundering in Canada. Those measures would target organized crime in Canada and, in turn, would have an effect in combatting auto theft. However, the Conservatives are opposing legislation, slowing it down at every turn. Even in the committee I sit on, the committee on public safety, the Conservatives are filibustering legislation to deal with cybercrime and cyber-activity to prevent us from getting to a study on auto theft. They talk a good game. Again, it is slogans. They get angry and pound the table, but when it comes to actually doing something and listening to experts, Conservatives are nowhere to be found. They are even filibustering legislation that I think they support, and the odd time we get to hear from a witness, cyber-activity is funding these same types of criminals. Again, when it comes down to taking action on crime and protecting Canadians, it is crickets from the Conservative caucus. Maybe “crickets” is not the proper word, since there are lengthy filibusters, but I think the analogy still holds. It is truly unfortunate to see all this legislation being slowed down. It is unfortunate to see the Conservatives voting against funding the police. We know, when they were in power, that they cut the RCMP, and they cut 1,000 officers from CBSA, and we are struggling to get back at it. It takes years. It takes time. The Leader of the Opposition the other day boasted about more cuts coming and that they can do more with less. I do not think that is what Canadians want to hear, that the Conservative Party is going to, once again, like it historically has done, cut police. That is not what Canadians want to hear when there is a situation that needs to be addressed, but that is what the Conservatives are offering. They will change the Criminal Code in the hopes that it will do something, and cut frontline policing. They have voted against it at every turn. They are showing us what they are going to do by voting against it. It is also interesting at the public safety committee to hear Conservative members beat the drum on American-style criminal law. That is a great thing for them to bring forward, but when I ask, time after time, if they could point me to a place that has enacted those types of laws in the United States that have made those communities safer. It is great for them to tell their constituents that they are going to bring these things in, but we can see the laboratory down south. We can look across the border and see that it has not worked. Again, it is empty rhetoric that is not going to do anything. Our government is committed to the work of public safety. As I mentioned, this Thursday, ministers responsible from across Canada, will join federal counterparts and leaders of law enforcement to consider the impacts of auto theft here in Canada and to identify the ways to work together. The federal government is showing leadership in this space by convening this urgent meeting. As the Minister of Public Safety said, “Collaboration is the key to identifying solutions.” The Bloc and the Conservatives can disagree and say that we should take action without listening to the experts and without understanding the complexity of crime. There is a place for the federal government. It needs to be there. However, there needs to be a place for the provinces, which oversee policing, and it is the same for municipalities; they need to work together. We are there. We made a big announcement with the premier of the Province of Ontario, in terms of money to help curb guns and gangs and to go after organized crime. Again, the federal government is taking action. What does the Conservative Party of Canada do? It votes against that money, and that is truly shocking. I have said before that the sole component of the Conservative Party environmental plan is recycling slogans. It really is in full gear when Conservatives talk about criminal justice, but there is nothing to back it up. It is just empty words. When it comes time to answer questions, they are nowhere to be found. They are a completely unserious party on this particular issue. I would like to note that we already have an extremely robust criminal law framework to address auto theft. This legal framework includes specific offences that target auto theft and related activity. It includes things like tampering with vehicle identification numbers, possessing items used to break into a vehicle or using computer systems to intercept car fob signals in order to steal a vehicle. In fact, the Liberal government, in 2019, raised the maximum penalty on summary conviction for theft of motor vehicles to two years. The previous government had it at 18 months, I believe. Would members like to know what legislation the government did this with? It was Bill C-75, the very legislation the Conservative Party leader is proposing to repeal. I am surprised he wants to lower penalties for those who steal motor vehicles. Again, it is empty slogans. His plans are unserious. The Conservative Party is unserious when it comes to public safety. The Criminal Code prohibits possession of stolen cars for the purpose illegally exporting them. Sentencing courts have the ability to impose significant penalties in cases where organized crime is involved. Sentencing courts must impose penalties that reflect the seriousness of the offences and the responsibility of the offender. Sentencing courts cannot impose conditional sentences for auto theft when prosecuted on indictment or committed for organized crime. Again, this flies in the face of the empty promises from the Leader of the Opposition. Serious criminals cannot and should not get house arrest. This is what the law says. Again, we hear some heckling that it is incorrect, but that is the fact. That is in the legislation that they, with their slogans, say they are going to repeal to actually make it easier for criminals to get away with it. Conservatives want to lower sentences, and they are laughing. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Chris Bittle: Madam Speaker, the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo is laughing while he is heckling. He thinks this is a funny joke, which is what he just said. It is truly a disappointing and unserious party, the Conservative Party of Canada. We are going to get action done. We are taking action on this file.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Feb/6/24 4:43:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of members from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I will say this much. Sometimes, people say really funny things, and my colleague just said something very funny. Perhaps it was because the speech was just not that compelling. At the end of the day, the member has spoken all about what they have done about auto theft. I will remind him that Bill C-75 did not just raise the sentence, as though he is saying that we are targeting auto theft. It was actually two years less a day that it raised it on summary conviction. It raised every summary conviction to two years less a day. The Liberal government can say that it is targeting this time after time. There is an epidemic here, and I want to know this: Will the member admit, fundamentally, what police and citizens across the country are telling us, that there is a problem?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Feb/6/24 4:44:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I cannot believe that the hon. member is criticizing us for increasing the summary conviction penalty across the board in the Criminal Code. That is their criticism that he wants repealed. They say we are soft on crime. I am surprised that the member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, as a former prosecutor, would stand in the House and talk about making it easier on criminals. We cannot make this up, but he just gets up. He should go back to listening to his colleague and laughing in this place, because that was just a joke.

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Mrs. Julie Vignola (Beauport—Limoilou, BQ)

Feb/6/24 4:45:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is possible to do two things at once. I will clarify my previous question to ensure the member understands. Obviously, consultation and coordination are essential when it comes to an issue as serious as auto theft, and crime in general. That said, there used to be preventative measures in place, but they were removed. Everyone knows that they are preventative measures. They have never been reinstated. We should be perfectly capable of considering their reinstatement while also discussing, coordinating and consulting. Why do my colleagues think we cannot do two things at once?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Feb/6/24 4:46:29 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comment. I do think we can walk and chew gum at the same time, perhaps myself not always so well. The government is addressing these things. The government is focused on poverty. It is focused on gangs. It is focused on finding activities for young people and funding those programs. We can do multiple things. Though the member from Kamloops wants to repeal stronger sentences against criminals, we want that to stand. We can do multiple things at the same time. The government is taking this seriously, working with provincial leaders, working with the Province of Quebec, to find a solution to this crisis.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Feb/6/24 4:47:22 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, as I listen to the interventions and think back to the effectiveness of the NDP in this 44th Parliament, I think about, for example, what the MP for Vancouver East and I have done in securing $4 billion over seven years for urban, rural and northern housing. I think about the member of Parliament for Winnipeg Centre who got unanimous consent by all of Parliament that residential schools are a form of genocide. Having said that, I am struck by the fact that there are 24 Liberal MPs who represent Toronto and the general area of Toronto alone. What I am asking is this: Why have they failed to take action to stop criminals from stealing cars?

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Mr. Chris Bittle

Feb/6/24 4:48:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for Nunavut for her concern about southern Ontario. The members of the Toronto caucus have been very vocal and, again, have been behind many of the items and legislation the Liberal government has brought forward. I know the Conservative Party wants to repeal tougher sentences for those who steal cars, but at the end of the day, this is something I know Toronto members have stood strongly on. As a member from southern Ontario, I have stood strongly on it. Perhaps the member for Nunavut should consult with members from the 416 area before asking such questions.

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Mr. Damien Kurek

Feb/6/24 4:49:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member for Nunavut, who is entitled to the same rights and privileges we all have in this place was just insulted by the previous speaker, a parliamentary secretary for the Liberal Party. I believe that the member should apologize for demeaning her and her right to intervene in this place.

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