SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 316 - May/23/24

Mr. Marc Dalton (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, CPC)

May/23/24 4:07:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the socialist approach of the Bloc Québécois, the Liberal Party and the NDP involves out-of-control spending at the expense of Quebeckers and all Canadians. This approach has increased the size of the bureaucracy in Canada by 100,000 people over the past 10 years. The result is a significant drop in quality of life. Can the Bloc member tell us what his party really wants? Is it more money and more spending, which will put us all in a deep hole?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

May/23/24 4:08:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we want is for the government to take responsibility. We want it to spend every dollar it takes from taxpayers effectively. That is why we are telling it that, instead of interfering in the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces—which is the focus of today's motion—it should use its public servants, existing resources, and the taxes it collects to do its own job properly. Take employment insurance, for example. Is it socialist to want an employment insurance system that works? Right now, only four out of 10 people who lose their jobs can get insurance. No private insurer would have any policies if its insurance was that ineffective. This jurisdiction belongs exclusively to the federal government, but it is doing a very poor job of looking after it. That is what we are saying. We are asking the government to spend every dollar wisely. Because of the fiscal imbalance, provinces like Quebec are not getting enough money for the public services they have to deliver. Half of every tax dollar is spent on these services, yet half of the public's needs are not being met. What we are asking is that the government look after health, education and social services transfers.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

May/23/24 4:09:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we wanted to improve the motion that was moved earlier. I moved an amendment to reaffirm the principle of co-operative federalism, where the federal government must work with the provinces in a way that respects the jurisdictions recognized in the Constitution, and to demand that the government work co-operatively with all levels to meet the needs of citizens while systematically offering Quebec the right to opt out unconditionally whenever the federal government interferes in its jurisdiction. At the end, the amendment proposed that we recognize the fact that 600,000 seniors in Quebec have already registered for dental care and that labour groups welcome the development of a universal public pharmacare plan. That is a fact. His House leader refused to accept the amendments I moved. Which parts does he not agree with?

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Mr. Gabriel Ste-Marie

May/23/24 4:10:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I was not aware of this proposed amendment, so I am not in a position to fully criticize or justify the proposed amendment that was just raised. I would say that, in general, these elements are included in the spirit of our motion. As far as the dental care and pharmacare programs are concerned, the Bloc Québécois's position is that jurisdictions must be respected. Why did Ottawa not give Quebec the right to opt out with full compensation so that it could take care of the programs? I would remind the House that the dental care program will be administered by Sun Life, a multinational insurance company that charges $2 billion in administration fees. In Quebec, the existing program for children is administered by the public sector.

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence, Lib.)

May/23/24 4:11:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the motion moved by the member for Jonquière, the Bloc Québécois critic for intergovernmental affairs, natural resources and energy. I would like to inform the House that I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Cambridge. Our government has repeatedly demonstrated its commitment to working collaboratively with Quebec while recognizing its specificity in its priority areas. There are many examples of collaborative approaches our government successfully implemented in partnership with the Government of Quebec. These include child care, health care, housing, infrastructure and high-speed Internet. I will give a few concrete examples of the constant effort our government has made to work in collaboration with the Government of Quebec, in the interest of Quebec, and with the interests of Quebeckers at heart. My first example has to do with the early childhood sector. The signing of an asymmetrical agreement with Quebec for this sector provided for the allocation of nearly $6 billion between 2021 and 2026 to make improvements to Quebec's system. In that agreement, our government highlighted the trail-blazing nature of the Quebec government's reduced-contribution educational child care services program, created in 1997 for children under five. I was living in Gatineau at the time, where I had a daughter, and I was able to benefit from this extraordinary service for Quebeckers. Quebeckers are proud of their educational child care system and, as I said, they have every reason to be. In addition to using it as a model—and we have—to guide our efforts to implement a pan-Canadian early learning and child care system in all the other provinces and territories, our government is making a significant contribution to supporting and improving Quebec's system, and we are doing so through our investments. When it comes to our governments' responsibilities, citizens across the country expect action to be taken to address the current concerns we are facing. Let us talk about housing, which is an excellent example at the moment, and one that is very much ongoing, even in my community of Orleans, which I represent. As we all know, housing is one of the main concerns of young people and families across the country. It is in this context that our government has made unprecedented investments to reduce the number of Quebec households in need of housing. One of the ways we have achieved this is by financially supporting Quebec's initiatives to accelerate the construction of residential housing and meet Quebec's housing needs. As one concrete example, our government contributed $900 million to Quebec last year through the housing accelerator fund to expedite the construction of residential housing in Quebec. The Quebec government also invested $900 million, bringing the combined total value of the two governments' envelope to $1.8 billion in new funding available for housing construction. These investments are expected to directly create 8,000 new social and affordable housing units, 500 of which will be reserved for people who are homeless or at risk of becoming homeless. It is important to recognize that our two governments share common goals like reducing the number of Quebec households with housing needs. In order to come to an agreement, we showed flexibility, particularly by recognizing that Quebec has been administering projects with municipalities and other stakeholders through the Société d'habitation du Québec for nearly 50 years. How have we actually shown that we are flexible? The federal government granted Quebec a set level of funding based on its demographic weight in the Canadian population, and it did so with the Government of Quebec, not the municipalities, as is the case elsewhere in Canada. Among other things, the terms of the agreement ensured that the Government of Quebec could define the terms applicable to Quebec municipalities, with the goal shared by our government to remove development obstacles and build more housing faster by reducing construction times. The agreement between Canada and Quebec on the housing accelerator fund has been a success in Quebec. I would like to share another example of our commitment to work hand in hand with Quebec to recognize Quebec's forward-thinking contribution to addressing a number of public policy challenges. I would like to give the example of the Canada-Quebec agreement to address gender-based violence, which will provide $97.3 million for fiscal years 2023-24 to 2026-27. With this agreement, we recognized the key role that Quebec plays through its integrated government strategy to address sexual violence. By recognizing Quebec's level of commitment through its strategy, the federal and Quebec objectives came together to address sexual violence and domestic violence in order to meet the various needs of population groups who experience gender-based violence. The concerted efforts of our two governments have resulted in many collaborative agreements in which we recognized Quebec's specificity and its unique ways of doing things. Of those agreements, I would like to draw members' attention to the one on public safety and fighting the scourge of gun violence. Our government was able to count on Quebec's leadership, through its provincial police force especially, to bring together all of the stakeholders. So far, I have talked about the collaborative efforts that our government has made to respond to the challenges that Quebeckers, like other Canadians, are facing. I would also like to talk about how working with the Government of Quebec has given us opportunities to develop the economy and help Quebeckers prosper. I want to take the few minutes that I have left to talk about the major investments that the Government of Canada and the Government of Quebec made to support the development of the electric vehicle battery sector in Quebec. Thanks to joint investments from both governments, Canada has been able to attract major investors in battery materials processing and battery cell manufacturing. Take, for example, the $2.7-billion investment that led the Swedish company Northvolt to set up shop in Montérégie, Quebec. With Northvolt, governments and businesses have invested no less than $15 billion in Quebec's battery sector and that will create at least 6,000 jobs. I will give a few more examples because I still have a few minutes left. Let us also look at the federal government's investment in the GM‑POSCO battery materials manufacturing plant, which is estimated at $600 million, and our investment in the establishment of a copper foil manufacturing plant in Granby to create and maintain 200 highly skilled jobs. I could talk about this at length because we are looking to work together with the Quebec government, not cause bickering in the House of Commons. That is very important for me because, even though I currently represent the riding of Orléans and I am proud of it, I grew up in Gatineau, Quebec. My parents and many Gatineau residents have told me that having access to dental care has improved their quality of life. I know that people here in the House are always stubborn about areas of jurisdiction, but I can say that our government is working very well and very closely with the Government of Quebec to meet the objectives of Quebeckers and Canadians, to improve their quality of life, in an economic situation that is very difficult at the moment. I will conclude by saying that we will continue to be there for Quebeckers. We will continue to work in collaboration with the Quebec government. I am very proud to have given this speech today.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

May/23/24 4:21:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we are hearing here is shocking. Earlier, the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie said that the Bloc Québécois is the party that cares the most about the Constitution. I almost died laughing. It is not about caring about the Constitution; it is about efficiency. My colleague just talked about housing. She said things are going well with Quebec. People are talking and listening to each other. When the big, important national housing strategy was launched in 2017, it took three years for the government to release those funds and start building housing in Quebec. The housing accelerator fund came along in 2022. The $1.8‑billion agreement with Quebec—$900 million from Quebec and $900 million from Ottawa—took two years to negotiate. In the meantime, money was being spent all over Quebec. Yesterday, the Parliamentary Budget Officer said that the national housing strategy was supposed to cut chronic homelessness in half. Well, it has doubled in the past five years. If the government's measures were working, we would know it. I would like to know what my colleague thinks of what the Parliamentary Budget Officer said yesterday about how it would take an extra $3.5 billion a year to solve Canada's homelessness problem.

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

May/23/24 4:22:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I always have to wonder when our Bloc Québécois colleagues ask questions. We are making investments. I just spoke about a housing agreement between Canada and the Government of Quebec. Is he trying to say that it is not enough? Is it too much? I do not know. What I can say is that we have sat down with Quebec to negotiate our agreements from the start. In the case of housing, the agreement is $1.8 billion between our two governments. It will lead to the construction of more than 8,000 new housing units, including 500 for persons who are homeless or at risk of homelessness. Once again, our debates here in the House of Commons are very important for Canadian democracy. We must not lose sight of the fact that we are here to represent Canada and Quebec. Our government works with the Government of Quebec to achieve our objectives.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

May/23/24 4:24:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think about the fact that many of us in the House, even those who have been here a decade or more, are seeing things happening in the community that they have not experienced before: homelessness, a poisoned drug supply, lack of income and more than a quarter of Canadians with a disability. We are dealing with serious issues and serious problems. I know there has been much discussion about what is being funded. When does the Liberal government start looking at the good ideas that are coming out? For example, if we talk about Quebec and child care, I know that Quebec has a livable income pilot going right now. When will the Liberal government start taking ideas that it knows are working for provinces?

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

May/23/24 4:24:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we often borrow ideas from Quebec, because they are often very forward thinking. For a number of years, the province of Quebec has had a price on carbon. It is a separate system that is fantastic for countering the harmful effects of climate change. My colleague spoke about child care. We drew inspiration from the Quebec system in order to benefit all Canadians. We will always work closely with Quebec, while creating federal programs to help all Canadians.

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Mrs. Jenica Atwin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indigenous Services, Lib.)

May/23/24 4:25:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague talked previously about the major challenges Canadians are facing across this country, including some things we have never seen before, or at least with some of the highest numbers in some of those measurables. In that vein, I think that Canadians are looking for us to work together with provinces and territories. Of course, it is really about a team Canada approach to these major challenges that we are facing. Could the member speak to that?

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

May/23/24 4:26:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, team Canada also includes the provincial team with the Government of Quebec. That has been the case since we took office in 2015. Personally, I entered provincial politics first, and I have been a member of Parliament since 2019. What I want to talk about is the massive investment of an additional $200 billion to improve health care in Canada. This will allow Quebeckers to have better health care. We know that there are still a lot of challenges in this area. The Province of Quebec and the Government of Canada will come to an agreement to improve health care services for Quebeckers, and I am proud of that. We will continue to work not only with Quebec, but with all the provinces on this issue.

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The Deputy Speaker

May/23/24 4:27:17 p.m.
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It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Saanich—Gulf Islands, Electoral Reform; the hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam, Persons with Disabilities; the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton, Ethics.

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Mr. Bryan May (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Small Business and to the Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario, Lib.)

May/23/24 4:27:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am thankful for the opportunity to take part in today's debate. I will cut to the chase. Condemning the federal government's interference in the jurisdiction of provinces and territories is not only incredibly flawed but also quite unfair. If anything, Canada's unique federal structure gives provinces and territories more autonomy to implement programs and policies that work best for their inhabitants, while simultaneously giving them a platform to leverage their strengths so that they can shine on the world stage. This is a win-win situation that allows Canadians, including Quebeckers, to reap a myriad of social and economic benefits, unlike anywhere else. I look forward to elaborating further on this point for my hon. colleagues. Canadians in every region and of all ages benefit from the federal government's fiscally responsible and people-driven economic plan. Thanks to our historic Canada-wide early learning and child care plan, we are reducing fees for regulated child care by 50% on average, and we will be delivering regulated child care that costs an average of just $10 a day by 2026. This is a great example of collaboration between the federal government and the provinces and territories. To date, eight provinces and territories have already reduced child care fees to $10 a day or less, and we are strengthening the affordable child care system that is already in place in Quebec by helping to create more child care spaces. Our investments in affordable, good-quality child care have helped to reach historic highs in terms of working-age women's participation in the workforce. We are also supporting about 3.5 million families annually through the tax-free Canada child benefit, with parents receiving up to $7,437 per child under the age of six and up to $6,275 per child aged six through 17 this year. This is helping to fight poverty across the country. What is more, we will continue to work with provinces, territories and indigenous partners as we launch a national school food program. This would expand access to existing school food programs and help 400,000 more children per day get good, healthy food, so they can have a fair start and good health. All the while, we have increased old age security benefits for seniors aged 75 and older by 10% as of July 2022, which is providing more than $800 in additional support to full pensioners. Our government has gone even further to make life more affordable for those Canadians who need it the most, including by doubling the GST credit for six months in the fall of 2022 and by delivering a one-time grocery rebate in July 2023. We also delivered the first enhanced quarterly Canada workers' benefit payment on July 28, 2023, to our lowest-paid and often most essential workers, with a family receiving a total benefit of up to $2,616 last year. Our new Canadian disability benefit will increase fiscal well-being of low-income Canadians with disabilities in every region of the country. On top of the laundry list of measures I just mentioned, we are also working with the provinces and territories to deliver improved health care to Canadians. Last year, we committed nearly $200 billion over 10 years to strengthen public health care for Canadians, including record health transfers and tailored bilateral agreements. This year, we introduced legislation to launch the first phase of national universal pharmacare in Canada, which would provide universal single-payer coverage for a number of contraception and diabetes medications. Of course, we are making historic investments in affordable dental care, which is essential not only for oral health but also for overall health. In December, the new Canadian dental care plan began enrolment, and it is expected to support, by next year, nine million uninsured Canadians with a family income of less than $90,000. Eligible seniors aged 65 and older are already able to apply, and in June, applications will open to children under 18 and to persons with a valid disability tax credit. Kids under 12 are already covered by the interim Canada dental benefit, which launched in December 2022 and has supported nearly half a million children. More than $400 million has been repaid to parents; families were able to use this money for things that were important to them, knowing that their children had received the care they needed. Moreover, thanks to the federal government's efforts to work with provinces and territories to build more housing faster across Canada, together, we are on track to build nearly four million homes by the end of 2031. To help get this done, we are cutting federal taxes to new federal apartment developments, cutting red tape, reforming zoning in cities and towns and providing direct low-cost financing to builders. We are also making it easier for Canadians to buy a home and supporting Canadians who rent or own their homes. For example, to help renters facing skyrocketing rents across the country, the 2024 budget proposes a new Canadian renters' bill of rights, a new $15-million tenant protection fund and a new $1.5-billion Canada rental protection fund that would help affordable housing providers keep rents at a stable level for the long term. For Canadians saving for their first home, especially millennials and gen Z, our tax-free first home savings account continues to make a real difference. Our new Canadian mortgage charter will help Canadians receive better support from their banks when facing financial difficulties, so they can make payments on time and stay in their hard-earned homes. We will keep working to accelerate housing construction and lower prices for Canadian buyers and renters, and we will continue calling on provinces, territories and municipalities to do everything they can to build more homes faster. That is what Canadians need from us and, frankly, what they deserve. We have been relentless in our efforts to work with provinces and territories to build a better, fairer Canada. This work has certainly paid off, but we need to keep the momentum going. By collaborating with our partners across all levels of government, we can continue to drive our economy toward growth that lifts everyone up and keep the promise of Canada within everyone's reach. Therefore, I encourage hon. members in the House to reject today's ill-conceived motion.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

May/23/24 4:35:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member says that the government is going to build four million homes by 2031. It built 200,000 last year, which was practically a record, and only 39,000 of them were in Quebec. Building four million homes by 2031 would mean building close to 600,000 a year, which is about three times more than the most Canada has ever built. Can my colleague help me make sense of that?

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Mr. Bryan May

May/23/24 4:36:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is not wrong. This is a huge challenge before us. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. Nobody is suggesting that this is going to be easy or that the federal government can do this on its own. The question that should be asked of the member is, quite frankly, why we are not all focused on the same issue. Does he not see the demand? Does he not see the need for these homes? Does he not see the need for us to get absolutely down-in-the-dirt serious about solving the housing issue in Canada? We know this problem exists. We know the challenge exists. This government is up for that challenge, and we will rise to it.

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Mr. Marc Dalton (Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, CPC)

May/23/24 4:37:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am having a real challenge with the member talking about what a utopia the Liberals and NDP have brought to our country. It seems as though they are totally disconnected from what is happening on the streets. They do not see the millions more people going to food banks and the doubling of housing costs. He talks about program after program. It is not the Liberals' money; it is taxpayers' money. It is very difficult. Quality of life is going down. Will the member recognize that the Liberals have been relentless in undermining and ruining our country?

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Mr. Bryan May

May/23/24 4:37:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, obviously I reject the premise of the question. I know that the member was not part of the previous government, but I do have to remind him that the previous government just simply did not answer the phone when the provinces called. We know this. We know that there was a complete detachment between the federal government and the provinces. The provinces were clamouring for support. When we were first elected, they were pounding on our doors for support. We know and remember this. We do not want to go back to a scenario where the federal government simply will not even pick up the phone when the provinces are saying, “Hey, we have a crisis.” Therefore yes, we have stepped up. Yes, we have invested incredible amounts of money to fix some of the problems that we inherited, and we still need to continue to work with the provinces and territories to ensure that we are doing this together. This is not about the federal government's coming in with an Ottawa-knows-best scenario. That is not what anybody wants to see. We know that we have to work together to solve the big issues, and I know that our government is prepared to do that.

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Part
Crisis

Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)

May/23/24 4:39:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member spoke at length about the Liberal government's expansive budget. Obviously, what is before us today is this idea of exclusive jurisdiction, yet when we deal with things like health care, there is clearly a shared responsibility and an opportunity to have conditions when it comes to national service standards. We know that the condition for the worker is also the patient condition, and I will reference the conditions of support workers, particularly in long-term care. They were the backbone of our senior care system, and despite everything they did for our elders through COVID, many of them are unable to retire with dignity. For three years, the government has promised these workers help with building their retirement savings plan. It made promises in 2020 fall statement, in the 2021 budget and in the 2023 budget, which allocates supposedly $50 million to the program, yet not a single dollar has flowed through to these workers. Therefore my question to the hon. member is this: Will the government honour the commitment to personal support workers who belong to SEIU, CUPE, LiUNA 3000, and many others out there, to flow the funds through before the end of the next fiscal year?

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Mr. Bryan May

May/23/24 4:40:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member brings up a very good point. We know how critical personal support workers are in our communities. We know how effective they are in helping people avoid having to go to emergency rooms, which, frankly, saves us money. We know that this is a critical need, and we also know that there are fewer and fewer people getting into this profession. We have to encourage the provinces to invest in this specific skill. In my province of Ontario, I am deeply concerned about what the province has done to undermine the profession. There is a two-tiered system now under the Ford government with personal support workers, and it is not right. When a personal support worker can make more at Starbucks than they can in this role, it is not right. I would absolutely advocate for more support for PSWs.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ)

May/23/24 4:41:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what do we have to do to live to 120? We mind our own business. Generally, that is a good technique for being well liked, for getting people's respect and for not getting into trouble. It is rather surprising to see that Canada has been around for 157 years while systematically not minding its business. That is a record. Essentially, if we put it in good French for Quebeckers to understand, today's motion calls on the government to mind its own damn business. We have to use the same crass, sloppy tone as the Prime Minister in drafting the motion. The motion calls on the House to remind the Prime Minister that, despite his claims, it is not true that people do not care which level of government is responsible for what. It is his father's Constitution. It is a family quarrel. It is sad that it has come to this, because while we are constantly fighting over jurisdictions—and let us face it, Quebec is right, because the Constitution is very clear—there are people who are suffering, who do not have health care and who do not have housing. While these people are suffering, we are bickering over dental insurance, health transfers and the conditions that will or will not be attached. There are human consequences to this. With this motion, we are conveying a message from all governments in Quebec, going back as long as there has been a social policy in Quebec. I would actually like to quote some premiers who were by no means separatists. The member for Winnipeg North talked a lot about our separatist attitudes, but it is not merely an attitude. It is at the core of who we are. I have a quote from a premier who said, “the provinces are then put in a position where no longer as legislators they decide as a matter of provincial policy that this is the type of social service their people require or desire, but rather their status is reduced to the mere right to decide whether or not they will participate in a programme that already has been decided at the federal level and which is now offered to them on a cost-sharing basis....in our opinion, shared cost programmes force a measure of uniformity that is beyond the dictates of desirability.” That was said by Ernest Manning, who served as the premier of Alberta from 1943 to 1968. In 1982, René Lévesque said that, in order to ensure the development of our society, the amending formula for the Canadian Constitution should recognize a general veto power or the right to opt out with full financial compensation in every other case. This continued with the Johnson government and the Charest government. In fact, all governments have asked for balanced federal spending power and the right to opt out with full financial compensation. This includes governments under which several of the current members served, including the member for Bourassa, now a Liberal MP in the federal government. He sat behind Jean Charest and made this demand, as did the now-famous member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis and the member for Mégantic—L'Érable, who served under Jean Charest. Several others, including the member for Louis-Saint-Laurent, who was part of Action démocratique du Québec and was also in the “yes” camp in 1995, have also made this demand. At one time or another, Quebec members were in favour of this. I am delighted to see that the Conservatives are going to support our motion. They took a few nights to think it over, after voting against our amendment to the amendment to the budget, which called for exactly the same thing as this motion. Sometimes consistency must be learned. Spending power has become a disease in Ottawa. We are talking about fiscal imbalance. At the time of Confederation, the federal government's responsibilities were very limited. There was no social policy and no welfare state. What evolved into today's welfare state, and what became social policy, health, education and assistance for the less fortunate, are things that the federal government handed over to the provinces because it was not interested. Religious orders took care of that. Since Protestants lived in Upper Canada, in Ontario, and Catholics lived in Quebec, the government decided to leave religious matters to the provinces. Over time, these responsibilities have become critical components of the modern state in terms of quality of life, longevity, productivity, social and industrial policy, and more. Unfortunately, the Constitution did not set out that the revenues that would become the most significant for a government would be shared equally between Quebec and Ottawa, which means that today, the provinces are drowning in responsibilities while the money is in Ottawa. This was never the intention. Normally, if the spirit of the Constitution had been respected, the government would have thought that if it was going to take tax points, tax bases, the ability to tax, then it should send it to the provinces so that they can be autonomous and the spirit of the Constitution would thus be respected. However, because of a flaw in the Constitution, something called spending power has developed, the spending power under which Ottawa assumes the right to withhold money, attach conditions and literally put a gun to the provinces' heads, telling them that they will not get the money if they do not do what the federal government wants, even though Ottawa has absolutely no right to legislate in areas such as health, education, higher education, scholarships and so on. This is a serious problem. This is a major problem first of all for transparency, because when Ottawa decides to cut transfers and funds, the public essentially experiences service cuts. From a democratic standpoint, people do not always know who to blame. In the 1990s, Quebec had to reverse course on ambulatory care and home care after Ottawa made budget cuts. People thought the Quebec government was responsible. Jean Chrétien admitted that balancing the budget was easy for him because he could simply make cuts and no one would be the wiser. This is a democratic problem. This is a policy consistency problem, because each province has its own preferences. Guess what? That is a good thing. Each of them learns from the others. Ottawa boasts about borrowing Quebec's model and applying it to everyone else. So kind of Quebec, they say. When that happens, how does innovation move forward in other areas? How are the provinces supposed to innovate and get ideas from one another in upcoming areas of innovation? It is impossible. We are also vulnerable to cuts. That is a message to the Conservatives because there is a big chance they will be in power soon. They are as excited as kids on Christmas. They know it is coming. They tell us that they respect provincial jurisdictions. The Harper government did this. They respected provincial jurisdictions. Essentially what they are saying is that they are going to respect provincial jurisdictions so much that they will not pay the provinces another penny, that they will make cuts to the transfers, that they will not index them. Then, since the Liberals generated a massive debt by sticking their noses in the provinces' business, they are going to pay down the debt and the provinces will have to do what they can on health. The Conservatives need to understand that if they are in power some day, they will have to live with the problems caused by the Liberals and they will have to index the health transfers. This just shows that Quebec is vulnerable to a change in government in Ottawa. It is also a denial of democracy. This spending power has become a disease that is more serious than we suspect. I sat on the Standing Committee on Health for several months. We have reached a point where, when we say that Quebec's jurisdictions must be respected, we are told that it is no big deal, that spending power lets us do whatever we want. I heard my colleague from Thunder Bay—Rainy River and my NDP colleagues say so. Physicians' federations are coming to Ottawa one after the other to ask for money, knowing that spending power will trample over the jurisdictions of Quebec and the provinces. For example, and this applies to a lot of other areas too, each federation asks for its own small program with its own small fund without realizing that, ultimately, the problem is systemic. The problem is that transfers need to be paid to Quebec with no strings attached in order for all needs to be met. The spending power, the fiscal imbalance, makes Quebec vulnerable, makes our constituents vulnerable. More than that, it absolutely undermines Quebec's decision-making capacity. It forces Quebec to negotiate because the money is in Ottawa and then Ottawa will brag about it. Earlier my Liberal colleague spent 10 minutes telling us what she had negotiated with Quebec. It should not have been up for negotiation. The money should have gone directly to Quebec City. Forcing a partner to negotiate is not a negotiation. It is what we call holding Quebec hostage. If the other provinces want that to happen, that is their business, but when the federal government creates a new program in the exclusive jurisdiction of Quebec, it is only natural that there be a bit of respect for Quebec, for the position of all its governments in history and that it be offered the right to opt out with full financial compensation.

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