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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 316

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
May 23, 2024 10:00AM
Context: House Hansard - 316 - May/23/24
Mr. Frank Caputo
  • May/23/24 10:37:23 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-5 
Mr. Speaker, it was section 344, but what was the mandatory minimum sentence for robbery with a firearm prior to Bill C-5?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:37:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is four years for non-restricted or five or seven for a restricted.
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Mr. Frank Caputo
  • May/23/24 10:37:47 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-5 
Mr. Speaker, did Bill C-5 eliminate the non-restricted mandatory minimum penalty, yes or no?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:37:56 p.m.
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  • Re: Bill C-5 
Mr. Speaker, Bill C-5 dealt with a number of issues that relate to mandatory minimum penalties, including the overrepresentation of indigenous and Black people in our justice system.
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Mr. Frank Caputo
  • May/23/24 10:38:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, is there still a mandatory minimum penalty for robbery with a non-restricted firearm, yes or no?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:38:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned earlier in today's discussion, there remains a mandatory minimum penalty for people who are involved in a robbery with a restricted firearm, of five—
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The Speaker
  • May/23/24 10:38:32 p.m.
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The hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.
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Mr. Frank Caputo
  • May/23/24 10:38:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am so glad the minister clarified that there is a mandatory minimum penalty for robbing somebody with a restricted or prohibited firearm. Does the minister think that this is what goes through somebody's head? “I am going to go commit a robbery of that 7-Eleven. Wait a minute. This is a restricted or prohibited firearm. Hold off. I am not doing it.” Does the minister think that is what goes through someone's head?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:39:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what is important to reflect on with respect to the mandatory minimum penalty discussion are the words of Ben Perrin, the former chief legal adviser to Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who said, “MMPs are ineffective at reducing crime, may actually increase recidivism, are highly vulnerable to being struck down by courts as unconstitutional, can increase delays in an overburdened system and perpetuate—
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The Speaker
  • May/23/24 10:39:22 p.m.
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The hon. member.
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Mr. Frank Caputo
  • May/23/24 10:39:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if there are drive-by shootings with no mandatory minimum penalty, are you okay with that? An hon. member: I have a point of order.
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The Speaker
  • May/23/24 10:39:29 p.m.
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I understand that the point of order is going to be raised but I am going to presume that the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo is asking a question through the Chair. We will have a very brief answer by the hon. minister.
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:39:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what I am very concerned about is the use of firearms in offences and that is why we have taken significant action on assault rifles—
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The Speaker
  • May/23/24 10:39:48 p.m.
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The hon. member for Regina—Qu'Appelle has five minutes.
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Hon. Andrew Scheer (Regina—Qu'Appelle, CPC)
  • May/23/24 10:39:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there has been so much misinformation from the Minister of Justice, so I am going to try one last time to get some clarity around some key points. The NDP-Liberal government made a conscious decision to not just make it easier but actually force judges to grant bail for dangerous and repeat offenders. That was in their bill, Bill C-75. Since those changes in the government's bill, has the overall crime rate in Canada gone up or down?
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Hon. Arif Virani (Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.)
  • May/23/24 10:40:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Bill C-75 dealt with a number of things. It dealt with trial delays. It dealt with responding to Jordan. It dealt with changing how to select a jury trial after the Gerald Stanley matter and the systemic racism that was disclosed. It also dealt with enhancing penalties for things like auto theft, which that member voted against.
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Hon. Andrew Scheer
  • May/23/24 10:40:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will get to auto theft in a moment, but first I want to just clarify: Bill C-75 made specific changes to make bail easier for dangerous and repeat offenders. I am not talking about any other aspect of bill C-75. Since those specific changes in Bill C-75, has the overall crime rate gone up or down in Canada?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:41:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that as a former Speaker, the member used to consult Speakers' decisions, but I also would appreciate that he knows about Supreme Court jurisprudence. What Bill C-75 did was codify a Supreme Court decision called “Antic”. The law was already in place. We took that law from the court cases and put it into the Criminal Code. That is what codification involves.
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Hon. Andrew Scheer
  • May/23/24 10:41:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, no judge ordered the government to make it easier to restrict judges from looking at other options, including keeping dangerous and repeat offenders in jail longer. The direct result of Bill C-75 is that Canada now has a catch-and-release bail system. The minister does not have to take my word for it. He can listen to the Victoria Police Department, which said in a statement, “Bill C-75, which came into effect nationally in 2019, legislated a 'principle of restraint' that requires police to release an accused person at the earliest possible opportunity”. Let us look at what that language says. It specifically states, “a peace officer, justice or judge shall give primary consideration to the release of the accused at the earliest reasonable opportunity and on the least onerous conditions”. Can the minister just answer a simple question? There are only two options: Since Bill C-75, either the crime rate went up or the crime rate went down. After nine years of the Liberal-NDP government, has the crime rate in Canada gone up or down?
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Hon. Arif Virani
  • May/23/24 10:42:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with the utmost respect, I want to elaborate on a couple of points. First, when a court, such as the Supreme Court of Canada, renders a decision, the administration of justice and justice actors like myself follow that guidance. That is how the rule of law operates in this country. Second, with respect to statutes, there is a guiding statute, a supreme statute. It is called the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I know that is sometimes inconvenient for the members opposite, because they want to just trample on it using the notwithstanding clause, but that charter, including in section 11(e), safeguards a right to reasonable bail not to be denied without just cause. These points are perhaps inconvenient for the member asking the questions, and certainly for his leader, but they are not an inconvenience for me or for our government. We stand by them to implement those charter rights and safeguard the rights of all Canadians.
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