44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 4, 2024 10:00AM
- Jun/4/24 10:21:09 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, these are tough times for people across the country. We can see it. We see that lineups at food banks have doubled since this government came to power. We remember that they also doubled under the Harper government. When the Conservatives were in power, it was bad news for Canadians. Since the Liberal government was elected, we see the same things: increased rents and lineups at food banks.
The NDP leader and member for Burnaby South and the entire NDP have been pressuring the government to change things. We saw that with dental care, which was enthusiastically welcomed by Quebeckers. It is important to note that Quebec is the province with the highest rate of participation in the NDP's dental care program. We also have pharmacare, which was adopted yesterday in a historic vote. In this case too, a huge Quebec coalition of nearly two million people from all the major labour groups, unions and the Union des consommateurs, as well as health care professionals, asked the NDP for this measure, which will help six million Canadians, as well as nine million other Canadians—
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- Jun/4/24 10:26:10 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am saddened that no Conservative or Bloc MPs are participating in the debate. That they would pull a trick like this on an opposition day shows their vulnerability. The reality is that I am going to be devoting most of my speech now to what Conservatives did when they were in power.
First, I just want to point out that the Bloc Québécois opposes everything the NDP has done. I was actually just talking about the fact that Quebec has the highest participation rate in the country for dental care. The Bloc Québécois tried to block dental care, but the NDP kept its promises.
The Bloc Québécois appears to be completely absent today. Bloc members oppose the notion that we should have pharmacare. However, a broad coalition of two million Quebeckers has said that this bill should pass.
Obviously, the Conservative Party and the Bloc Québécois oppose today's NDP motion. I will read it:
That, given that the cost of food continues to increase while grocery giants such as Loblaws, Metro and Sobeys—
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- Jun/4/24 10:27:57 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Bloc Québécois is clearly opposed to this motion, so I think it is important that I read it. It states, and I quote:
That, given that the cost of food continues to increase while grocery giants such as Loblaws, Metro and Sobeys make record profits, the House call on the government to: (a) force big grocery chains and suppliers to lower the prices of essential foods or else face a price cap or other measures; (b) stop delaying long-needed reforms to the Nutrition North program; and (c) stop Liberal and Conservative corporate handouts to big grocers.
This is something that everyone should support. Members of the Bloc Québécois are opposing it, and I think that they are going to pay the price in the next election. I think they are also going to pay the price for opposing dental care, which is something that Quebeckers really appreciate, and for opposing pharmacare, which is supported by the biggest coalition in the history of Quebec. This shows that the Bloc Québécois is off the mark when it comes to things that are in the best interests of Quebeckers and everyone.
I want to take some time to talk about the disgraceful Conservative record on this because as we know, the corporate Conservatives have been involved in some of the most egregious impacts on Canadian consumers. I need to talk about the bread-fixing scandal. Prices went up, and just a few months after the Harper government was elected, all the big grocery chain CEOs got together and decided they were going to fix the price of bread, because they knew the Harper government would do absolutely nothing to stop them. Just a few months after Harper was elected, that is what they chose to do, and they were right.
Over the course of almost a decade, money was stolen from Canadian families, on average $400, with nary a peep from a single Conservative MP. Not a single one of them over the decade stood up to say that maybe price fixing is bad, that maybe consumers should not be gouged and that maybe the big grocery chains should stop ripping off Canadian consumers. Nothing happened for a decade. The Conservatives should hang their heads in shame. Every single Conservative member was simply an agent helping to facilitate the rip-off of $400 from Canadian consumers. It was $400 more than they should have paid if price fixing had not simply been allowed by the Harper government for nearly a decade.
Are the Conservatives different today under the member for Carleton? Sadly, they are not. Corporate lobbyists have been stepping up to every fundraiser the member for Carleton holds. The Conservatives' national campaign manager is a lobbyist and their deputy leader is a lobbyist. Half of their national executive are corporate lobbyists. The corporate Conservatives are simply the worst example of how corporate CEOs can rip off the public with impunity under Conservative governments.
Of course, one would say that Liberals have not been much better, but the reality is that in the current minority Parliament, because of the strength of the member for Burnaby South, the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford and the entire NDP caucus, we have managed to enforce new changes in the Competition Bureau legislation that actually finally allow the Competition Bureau to take action.
Under the Harper government, the bread-fixing scandal that ripped off hundreds of dollars from each Canadian family going to the grocery store and basically being robbed by bread price fixing, which was allowed under the Harper government in the most egregious way, is now going to be a memory because of the Competition Bureau fixes that the member for Burnaby South, the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford and the entire NDP caucus have brought to the most recent budget implementation act.
We have taken action to ensure that Canadians are protected. That is what we do in this corner of the House. We are not corporate Conservatives. We do not simply allow the corporate lobbyists to do whatever the hell they want, such as bread price fixing like we saw under nearly a decade of the most dismal record in Canadian history with the most corrupt government in Canadian history, the Harper government, and the most financially incompetent government with ten years of deficits throughout that period.
As I recall, it was a government that was willing to give anything to banks and corporate CEOs, $116 billion in liquidity supports to Canada's big banks so they could pay bigger dividends and bigger executive bonuses.
Of course, we saw the massive handouts to oil and gas CEOs, another price-fixing scandal that has been well documented. We saw in British Columbia, just a few months ago, an unexplained 30¢ rise, because the oil and gas giants just love ripping off consumers, but nary a peep from Conservatives. As long as the corporations are benefiting, then they are happy. We saw, as well, the most egregious, infamous Harper tax haven treaties. The Parliamentary Budgetary Officer informed us that, sadly, over $30 billion a year in taxpayer money was going offshore. Over 10 years, that is $300 billion.
There is no doubt that Conservative times, Tory times, are tough, toxic times. That is illustrated most clearly by how the Conservatives allow corporate CEOs to rip off Canadians with impunity. The NDP is not going to stand for that. This is why we have brought forward this motion to ensure we stop the corporate handouts that we have seen under the Conservatives, and most recently, as my colleague from Cowichan—Malahat—Langford pointed out, under the Liberals, with the $25 million given to Loblaws, as if it needs it.
Under the Conservatives and Liberals, seniors and low-income people tend to pay the price, except in minority governments where the NDP holds the Liberals to account and forces things such as the GST rebate, the grocery rebate, affordable housing, dental care, pharmacare and a range of other measures that actually help Canadians. We are also saying that we need to reform nutrition north. We hope all members will support it today.
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- Jun/4/24 11:04:40 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member opposite does bring forward something very interesting.
Canada and the province of Ontario, as an example, were part of the Western Climate Initiative throughout California and Quebec, along with other provinces and other states in the United States, to provide for industry-wide industrial pricing on carbon. It exempted that province, as well as Quebec, from the backstop, which is the federal program that all provinces are entitled to do, netting the province of Ontario $1.5 billion a year because we had decarbonized our system through the elimination of coal. We were advancing.
It was a Conservative government that decided to eliminate the cap-and-trade system in Ontario, and the $1.5 billion in revenue, to pick a fight on carbon pricing with the federal government, which it did not need to do because we were exempt. It was an incentive program. It provided an incentive to invest in changing consumer habits, to retrofit their homes and to provide agricultural sustainability. Every area of the program is priced internationally. The Conservative members opposite should be well aware of that.
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- Jun/4/24 11:35:36 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague sits on the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology. I know that he is interested in the price of many goods and services in Quebeckers' and Canadians' market basket.
In the last budget, the government proposed an open banking system. That will completely sideline Desjardins, the largest financial institution in Quebec. The federal government wants to impose an open banking system and force Desjardins either to isolate itself or to join the federal system, which would certainly go against the spirit of the Constitution.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts about this. Does he not think that, before once again imposing a last-minute policy on the provinces, the government should coordinate with Quebec to ensure that Quebeckers, most of whom bank with Desjardins, can receive the same treatment as all other Canadians?
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- Jun/4/24 11:37:19 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.
Today, we are talking about the price of groceries and the food we eat. First, as they start their season, I would like to take a few seconds in the House to thank all those in Quebec's agricultural and processing sectors who feed us. Many of my colleagues from all parties, especially those of the Bloc Québécois, are from Quebec agricultural ridings that feed our cities. In particular, I am thinking of the member from Montcalm and the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot.
I feel it is very important to acknowledge the work of people in the agricultural sector. They work hard under tough market conditions. Global warming and climate conditions do not help. Bad weather adds to all the economic hardship these people face. However, in the past year, the federal government has offered virtually no meaningful programs to help them. I therefore want to recognize their work.
Today, we are debating this NDP motion. I have mixed feelings about it because we know the NDP has something of talent for making accurate diagnoses but proposing solutions that, to put it politely, are inappropriate and ill-conceived. Maybe it is because of incompetence. I cannot say. Anyway, the NDP makes diagnoses.
For example, they said people need dental care. Their solution was to ask the government with the least competence and no jurisdiction in this area to implement a program that violates the Constitution by sending cheques to people, making them wait and not clearly outlining the parameters to them, not to mention that its management was turned over to the private sector.
A diagnosis with a bad solution is the hallmark of the NDP. It is the same thing with the pharmacare system. The New Democrats are good at stating the obvious: In their opinion, people need prescription drugs. I thank the NDP, because no one here had any idea. Here again, the NDP comes up with a solution, namely to call on the federal government to get involved and impose conditions on the provinces. Given that Quebec already has its own plan and is innovating, they are destabilizing that plan and slowing down the progress of Quebec's system, which is still a model in the federation. They are actually slowing down innovation, because a province that is innovating can inspire the other provinces.
That is the hallmark of the NDP. It makes an obvious diagnosis of an obvious problem. In this particular case, let us keep in mind that for 30 years the NDP was not interested in this problem, although it has easily existed for 30 or 40 years in our competition regime. However, after a period of 7%, 8% or 9% annual inflation, the NDP is suddenly interested and is proposing a strange solution. The NDP's solution is to control prices, in other words, cap them.
I am all for discussing the price of food, because it is true that prices have increased. How do we cap the price of groceries? We open a new tower here in Ottawa and fill it with public servants who will search through flyers all day long: Butter will be such and such a price, celery is too expensive in Val-d'Or, maybe beets should be cheaper in Rimouski, and a loaf of bread in Plateau Mont-Royal costs 25¢ too much.
This was already done in the United States during the Great Depression of the 1930s. They were exceptional measures. It was also done during the Second World War, when they had the Office of Price Administration. That place was filled with public servants who threw papers from one floor to another, as in “the place that sends you mad”, in an Asterix film. At the time, in all the non-communist regimes where this was done, these were exceptional measures implemented in response to an exceptional situation. The problem with what the NDP is proposing is that it is seeking an exceptional measure to address a problem that has become permanent. That is the wrong way to approach the problem.
The same is true of bringing in a windfall profit tax. It might be a good tax. It may be that this tax will not distort markets. Tax specialists tell us that some taxes are better than others in that they are less harmful to the economy, which will come as a surprise to the Conservatives. In the Bloc Québécois, we once proposed a temporary windfall tax on certain profits. It was a surtax on the banks, because they had made excess profits during the pandemic, and those temporary measures could be considered appropriate.
In this case, however, the situation is structural. In 1986, I was four years old. Revealing my age is not something I like doing, but someone put it on Wikipedia so what can I do. In 1986, there were 13 major grocery chains competing with each other. Over the years, some of them swallowed up others. Bigger chains emerged, to the point where today Canada has only three major chains—yes, three. I would remind everyone that geographically speaking, Canada is a very big country, and we have only three chains—five, if we count Costco and Walmart. Target tried but came up short. We started out with 13 large chains and now we are down to five. That is the problem. The problem lies in our competition system. What will we do? Will we let five players divvy up 80% of the market, fill an office tower with public servants and institute price controls? Therein lies the problem.
I will show how easy it is to diagnose the lack of competition here, as well as the obstacles to investment. The profit margin of Canada's major grocery chains is about 5%. People might say that is not a very big margin, but we are dealing here with a volume market where five players share 80% of the market. Five per cent is a fairly large margin, because in Europe the average margin is 3%. In the United States the average margin is 2%. Furthermore, since there is more competition in the U.S., there is more innovation. One of the leading competition law specialists testified in committee that, unlike here in Canada, there is a differentiated offer in the U.S., in that grocery stores are different from one another and there are different models. Here in Canada, however, when people walk into one grocery store or another, they can see they are all the same. They could change their name tomorrow and we would not even notice a difference.
I said profit margins are 5% in Canada and 2% in the United States. In a functional market, what should happen in this situation? Eventually, an American chain would decide it is no crazier than anybody else, and it would come open grocery stores in Canada and make 5%.
What is happening instead? We have a Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry, whom I admire for his boundless energy, flying to the U.S. so he can chase down grocers and beg them to open stores here. Clearly, there is an investment issue. There is something wrong when Bloomberg says that Canada has become a top investment destination for some industries, yet American grocery retailers just kilometres away do not want to come here.
Why? Maybe it is because there is still anti-competitive behaviour going on, there are regulatory barriers, and the other players are too big. The NDP does not mention this, however. It did not do this analysis, and that is why we will continue to live in a market dominated by a handful of major players.
Yes, improvements have been made. The commissioner of competition has been given the power to subpoena witnesses and compel them to produce documents. He has been given the power to launch investigations. His powers have been enhanced, but this is like moving from the Stone Age to the Iron Age. Just a few months ago, Canada's competition regime was the same as it was in the 1980s, and it is changing at a snail's pace. However, all competing markets give their commissioners more powers. They give them more freedom. There is always a presumption in favour of consumers, and the commissioner does not have to constantly go to court, only to lose the case in the end.
We need a major overhaul and regulatory reform. This would require a Parliament that cares about competition and innovation. It would also require stable and predictable supply chains, as well as local production. Free trade is great, but it requires reciprocity of standards, because we are importing products treated with pesticides that are banned in Canada. When the pandemic hit, obviously, supply chains broke down. This would be part of the solution.
Today's motion gives us an opportunity to talk about and debate food prices. Food is the second highest household expense item. Unfortunately, however, I have my doubts that filling office towers with public servants to control prices is an appropriate way to address a situation that deserves a considerable amount of our attention.
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- Jun/4/24 2:10:05 p.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Mr. Speaker, after nine years under this government, our streets are becoming less and less safe. Crime rates across the country keep rising. Montrealers are increasingly afraid in their own city. It has gotten to the point where the city's police department is completely overwhelmed.
Yesterday, the Montreal police service's annual report revealed that 911 calls in Montreal have increased by 10% since last year, to a total of 1.6 million calls. People are worried, and I can see why. This increase in calls is the result of the Liberal government's dangerous catch-and-release policy. Which party is fully supportive of this policy? That would be the Bloc Québécois, even though it has caused all this crime and chaos in our communities.
Bloc members, who claim to be the defenders of Quebec, voted in favour of Bill C‑5, which allows convicted criminals to stay at home rather than go to prison. That is why a Conservative government will crack down on criminals with tougher policies to stop crime. We will protect people and their loved ones.
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- Jun/4/24 2:43:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite for his very fair question.
It is true that Canada, like many other countries, is facing a record number of asylum claims. This year is another one for the record books. That does not mean we are not taking things seriously. On the contrary, we are stepping up our efforts to ensure that the people who come here, fleeing war and violence, are well received and properly supported. We need Quebec's support.
I want to point out how important it is that the Bloc Québécois continue to advocate to ensure that asylum seekers are welcomed in Quebec and Canada.
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- Jun/4/24 2:44:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is a cost related to asylum seekers. There is also a responsibility. We have to house them, care for them, educate them and provide them with French classes. We have to allow them to work, something that Ottawa is incapable of doing.
Asylum seekers currently represent 20% of social assistance recipients in Quebec. The Prime Minister says, “come to Canada, oh downtrodden of the earth”. He forgets to tell them that once they arrive, he will not lift a finger for them. He cannot even give them a work permit in less than 30 days.
Is that the Liberal definition of being welcoming?
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- Jun/4/24 2:45:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, several weeks ago, the member across the way claimed that it took six, seven or eight months, I no longer remember how long. People are not entitled to a work permit before three months. We are doing our best to give them one.
Obviously, money earned can go a long way. It is clear that we can do better. It is clear that we want to do better. Obviously, in light of the record number of claims, we are going to need the support of the provinces, including Quebec. I very much welcome that support.
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- Jun/4/24 3:08:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, during the 2021 election campaign, every Conservative member promised to put a price on pollution. That was important, especially in Quebec, because Quebeckers understand the importance of climate action. We now see the Conservatives doing an about-face.
The thing that concerns me is the Conservatives' future about-face on a woman's right to choose. The Conservative member from northern Alberta said what he really thinks. We should be afraid of those Conservatives.
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- Jun/4/24 3:45:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I completely agree that this government has failed to take the measures needed to deal with the climate crisis. We used our leverage over this minority government to force it to take measures that it never would have taken otherwise.
I also want to point out that the main reason why grocery prices are so high is actually price gouging on the part of these grocery giants.
In our motion today, we are proposing a plan to lower prices, because people in Quebec and across Canada are struggling. It is more difficult than ever to buy groceries. That is why we are calling on the government to take measures as urgent as this crisis. We are asking grocery giants directly to lower the prices of essential foods or face a price cap.
I also want to mention that France has a similar plan. It took a similar approach and forced the country's grocery stores to lower the prices of essential foods, and it succeeded.
We want to do the same thing here, because people need urgent measures.
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- Jun/4/24 3:57:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. Listening to her and working with her is always interesting.
This motion deals with the highly complex issue of grocery price inflation. As I mentioned earlier, rising prices depend partly on the Chicago Board of Trade and partly on the increased cost of producer inputs, largely due to climate change.
I really want to emphasize that point, because in a rural riding like mine, Shefford, we hear a lot talk about the fact that producers are being forced to raise their prices. That is the starting point, the foundation.
Given all the effects of the climate change happening at this time, Quebec has announced a plan to try to help farmers, even though we know it will not be enough. We also know that the federal government can and must do more for agriculture. Does my colleague believe that that the federal government must do its part to help these farmers make it through the climate crisis, like the Government of Quebec did yesterday, in an announcement that was welcomed by farmers?
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- Jun/4/24 3:59:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague is somebody I have worked with quite closely on a number of different files, and I appreciate her insight and thought process.
I would agree with her that this is a very complex issue. There are some things we can do and other things we can continue to work on. Supporting local producers is vital. Supporting our farmers is a very important role that the government can step into and play. I do not know very well the Quebec program the member is referring to. I am a member of Parliament, of course, from Alberta. I congratulate the Edmonton Oilers.
What we can do to support local farmers is very different from making sure that corporate giants are not taking $6 billion out of the pockets of Canadians and gouging them. Those are two very different things, and we can very much support one without supporting the other.
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- Jun/4/24 5:50:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank the member for her questions and comments, and for her continued advocacy in combatting gender-based violence and intimate partner violence
I also want to extend my thanks to the province of Quebec for writing to the federal government and calling on it to make this legislative change. It has been two years since the justice committee tabled this report, and the government's inaction has meant that more women have faced coercive control without the tools to address it. It also means that because coercive control is one of the most common precursors to femicide, more women die. The more we delay the needed reforms to support survivors and victims of intimate partner violence, the more women die.
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