44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 4, 2024 10:00AM
- Jun/4/24 11:50:15 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, my Bloc colleague gave an excellent speech.
Certainly I agree with the member when he talked about the comparison of the solution being taxation or more competition. Obviously I would support more competition. However, would he not also agree that a percentage of a higher number results in a higher number? For example, the retailers claim that they have maintained their margins throughout the whole pandemic, yet of course with the rising costs, their profits have come to record levels on a nominal basis. Therefore, would not an additional solution, besides more competition, be the removal of costs in our supply chain, like the carbon tax, like other tariffs that impact farmers, and things of that nature?
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- Jun/4/24 11:50:57 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have spent three minutes without talking about the carbon tax. I think that is a record. I thank my colleague for reminding us of his political position.
We can work on the production costs of groceries, but the Conservatives always lean toward the most polluting option. There are many ways to reduce the costs of groceries. There are many sources of taxation. There are zoning issues that are provincial. Most of these things are not provincial. However, let us be clear, all that interests the Conservatives is oil.
I think that impeding the fight against climate change is no way to increase competition in a market where the profit margin is more than double what it is in the United States. That is a false solution.
The Conservatives are trying to deceive the people by trying to make them believe that axing the carbon tax will solve all of humanity's problems. I think these people should start working on a serious political platform that is more complex and more adapted to the complex world we are living in now.
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Madam Speaker, yesterday evening we were debating a Conservative amendment to a Standing Committee on Finance report. This amendment sought to revive the proposal we had voted against just a few hours earlier, the miracle solution of the tax holiday that would last all summer. The taxes would resume once the House was back in session, just in time for us to collectively complain about their return.
Earlier yesterday, we were debating the simplistic solution to the fight against high grocery prices, because, as we know, in addition to solving all the world's ills, world hunger, the cancer and AIDS epidemics and all other problems, axing the tax on carbon will also guarantee more affordable food prices for all. In fact, if we abolish the carbon tax, food costs would go down to zero and everyone would eat for free.
A day after the Conservatives' simplistic motion, we are studying a simplistic motion moved by the NDP. We are shifting from a tax break to a price cap. I will read the NDP motion, as I will be talking about the three proposals it contains. There are some good ideas in there, but the Bloc Québécois cannot support it as a whole. It reads as follows:
That, given that the cost of food continues to increase while grocery giants such as Loblaws, Metro and Sobeys make record profits, the House call on the government to:
(a) force big grocery chains and suppliers to lower the prices of essential foods or else face a price cap or other measures;
(b) stop delaying long-needed reforms to the Nutrition North program; and
(c) stop Liberal and Conservative corporate handouts to big grocers.
The first thing is the basic wording, “That, given that the cost of food continues to increase while grocery giants make record profits”. We all agree on that. However, we run into the same problem that we saw with the Conservatives. They focus on the perfectly legitimate public anger, but then offer simplistic solutions instead of truly addressing the root of the problem.
Let us begin with point (a): “force big grocery chains and suppliers to lower the prices of essential foods or else face a price cap”. Say we support it. Now I would want to know how we are supposed to do this. Is there a how-to manual? How do we go about imposing a cap on the price of bread, for example, when wheat prices are negotiated at the Toronto Stock Exchange? How do we go about imposing a cap on the price of fresh vegetables, when prices are skyrocketing mainly because of crop losses due to drought or flooding, which are caused by climate change?
Unlike the Conservatives, the NDP does believe in climate change. However, the NDP continues to support the budgetary policies introduced by the Liberals, who are always giving handouts to oil companies, even though they contribute more to climate change than any other sector.
How do we force farmers to lower their prices when the price of nitrogen fertilizer has quadrupled? The price per tonne jumped from $250 to $1,000 between 2020 and 2022. How do we force a Californian produce grower to sell their broccoli cheaper in Canada than in the United States? Does the NDP think it can wave a magic wand and cap prices without creating shortages?
Point (a) is impractical and unfeasible, which is already reason enough for the Bloc Québécois to vote against the motion, despite the good intentions behind it.
Now, let us look at the enhancement of the nutrition north program. I will start by saying that this is a good measure. Since 2011, nutrition north has subsidized grocers in the far north to compensate for the high cost of transportation and lower the price of groceries. However, the program does not fully compensate for the high costs, which are due not just to transportation costs but also to low volumes and higher operating costs. Considering that the average income in the Inuit community is around $23,000 a year, which is shockingly low, it is clear that food insecurity must be a widespread problem.
Businesses offer workers from outside the community a golden bridge to encourage them to work in the north. The income of non-indigenous individuals is approximately $95,000 a year, according to a study by Gérard Duhaime, a professor at Université Laval with whom I rubbed shoulders in a previous life.
We agree with that part of the motion. If that was all the motion contained, both my colleague from Mirabel and I would have given very short speeches, two minutes at most. We would merely have said that we supported the motion. Unfortunately, all the rest of it dilutes and undermines the proposal's credibility.
The third point calls on the government to “stop Liberal and Conservative corporate handouts to big grocers”. The only thing we want to know is what that is referring to. The NDP often talks about a subsidy that Loblaw received a few years ago to replace its refrigerators with more energy-efficient models. That in itself is no scandal. I think we all aspire to that.
Besides that, the only handout I see the Liberals and Conservatives giving big grocers is their inaction. By doing nothing, by remaining silent and not taking action, they are giving them an indirect handout. In fact, there are no subsidy programs specifically for grocers, apart from nutrition north, for which the NDP is asking for more funding today. The NDP supports the only subsidy that exists. It is asking the government to enhance and improve the program, and that is what we are asking for as well.
As mentioned earlier, the companies that are really gorging on subsidies are the oil companies. In the past two years, the federal government has given them subsidy after subsidy. That was always the case, but it did not stop when the infamous coalition agreement with the NDP was signed. The tax breaks set out in all the budgets and economic statements will total $83 billion by 2035. That is more than $2,000 per capita, or almost $4,000 per taxpayer. The NDP keeps supporting every budget, every economic statement and every appropriation, no questions asked, in the name of an agreement to further intrude on Quebec's jurisdictions.
This spring, Parliament has been seized with bills C-59 and C-69. Today, the Standing Committee on Finance is voting as part of the clause-by-clause study of Bill C‑69. They could be at it until midnight tonight. It provides $48 billion in tax breaks mostly for the oil companies. Does the NDP support that? The answer is yes.
Since I only have two minutes left, I will finish my speech quickly. I will try to talk as fast as an auctioneer at those events we all occasionally attend in our ridings.
That being said, there is a real problem. I must emphasize that. The grocery industry is dominated by a handful of moguls, namely Loblaw, Sobeys and Metro. In 2022 alone, these three companies, the most affluent companies in the sector, reported over $100 billion in sales and drew in profits exceeding $3.6 billion. Yes, there is a competition problem. Small entrepreneurs have a hard time breaking into the market, since the grocery giants control everything. With a mixture of astonishment and consternation, we are seeing the growing concentration in the sector make it harder and harder for new entrants to break into the market or expand, making competition almost non-existent.
According to a 2023 Competition Bureau report, a grocery sector strategy is urgently needed. If the Liberals and Conservatives are giving these giants any handouts, it is by not having a strategy. That is the handout.
Let us agree on the fact that there are several possible solutions. We need to make it easier for foreign investors to enter the market. We need to increase the number of independent grocers. We also need to have clearer and more harmonized requirements for unit pricing. We also need to take measures to discourage, or even prohibit, property controls in the grocery sector. These controls restrict competing grocers from leasing space in the same building. They make opening new grocery stores much more difficult, if not impossible, and this reduces competition in our communities.
Why is competition so important? It is the backbone of the economy. Simplistic solutions are not the answer. The answer is more competition in the grocery sector.
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- Jun/4/24 12:02:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am always happy to listen to my colleague.
The French government forced big companies to lower prices on approximately 5,000 grocery items. This approach was copied by South Korea and Greece for other tools and other measures.
Does my colleague agree with what the NDP is proposing today, namely the approach of using government measures and tools to lower the price of essential foods and forcing companies to lower their prices, like France, Greece and South Korea did?
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- Jun/4/24 12:03:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do not wish to repeat everything I already said, but in my remarks, I highlighted several completely unrealistic aspects concerning prices that have nothing to do with public will, but rather result from all sorts of factors, including wheat prices, which are determined in Chicago, or vegetable prices, which are going up because of climate change. There are plenty of similar examples to show that, all in all, this proposal is unrealistic. The problem, unlike in South Korea or France, is the concentration in our grocery sector. That is the real issue. It is concentrated among a handful of grocery giants.
My colleague's proposal consists of putting in place an interim, temporary solution because the situation has reached alarming levels and something has to be done. All right, but if we do that without attacking the structural, central, permanent problem, which is the growing monopolies in this sector, there will always be a problem with prices, unless the proposed price cap is permanent, which no one seems to be suggesting today.
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- Jun/4/24 12:04:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I suspect the issue of caps has a lot to do with the supply end and with the end result. My question to the member is in regard to the idea of enhanced competition. We did have six large grocery companies. Shoppers was the last one that folded into Loblaw. In part, that sent a very strong message in itself, and it was one reason we had to change and to modernize the Competition Act.
I am wondering if the member could provide his thoughts on the important role that the Competition Act and the commission play in ensuring that there is stability in prices.
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- Jun/4/24 12:04:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it goes without saying that this act is important and needs to be updated. Clearly, Houston, we have a problem.
If there are indeed only six large grocery companies, this strikes me as an indictment of the act in question. It goes without saying that this is part of the the issue. Sometimes I feel like the answer is already in the question, and this is one of those times.
When the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry tours the planet in hopes of wooing investors and gets no response, we know there is a problem. Competition is the key. Nevertheless, I think this is a pretty striking example that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the status quo is not working.
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- Jun/4/24 12:05:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to return to the other point in the motion my colleague talked about, which is to “stop Liberal and Conservative corporate handouts to big grocers”. We saw this under the Harper government. They took a hands-off approach, and it cost the average Canadian family $400 for groceries, which they should not have had to pay. As we saw with the Liberals, the total comes to $25 million.
Does my colleague agree with the NDP that all these government subsidies and handouts to the big grocery chains should be terminated, whether the government is Conservative or Liberal?
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- Jun/4/24 12:06:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, there was a subsidy a few years ago to upgrade refrigerators to more energy-efficient models. I do not think that that is a scandal. The idea itself is a good one. Honestly, I am not an expert in the exact subsidy that was given, but I think that the idea is good. We all agree that we should promote more energy-efficient practices.
That being said, there is no subsidy specifically for big grocers at this time. There are none. The only one that exists is nutrition north Canada, which the NDP wants to see increased, and we agree. The only subsidy that exists is aimed at helping Northern Canadians.
If there is a handout, it lies in the Liberals' and Conservatives' inaction.
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- Jun/4/24 12:07:28 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, before I start my speech, I would like to send my best and happiest birthday wishes to my son, Robin. I love him so much, and I am excited to see him again sometime soon.
With respect to the nutrition north program, I thank the NDP for this opposition day motion to bring to light why we have been making efforts to have it overhauled. The inaction by the Liberals has compelled the NDP to make sure that during this debate we talk about the inadequacy of the program.
To give a bit of history, the nutrition north program replaced a food mail program, which at the time paid, directly to consumers, the cost of shipping nutritious perishable food and essential items by air to isolated and northern communities. It was originally a program that gave subsidies directly to consumers. This program was changed to the nutrition north program by the Conservative government. When Conservatives replaced the food mail program with the nutrition north program, they made it abundantly clear that they preferred to support corporate greed. The subsidy changed from helping regular people afford food to giving millions to corporations like The North West Company. The North West Company receives 51% of the subsidy. In total, about 125 of its stores use tax dollars to put profits into their pockets in communities where food insecurity is the highest.
After Conservatives changed the program, the Liberals have not done much better. They have allowed this Conservative-created program to keep supporting corporate greed. Since I was elected in 2021, I have stood in the House time and time again to ask the Liberal government to make changes to the nutrition north program. I have asked 17 times what it will do to help alleviate poverty by improving the program. I have asked about expired food arriving in communities. In effect, the Co-ops were paying cargo fees for nutritious food to arrive in their communities, only to have it taken directly from the airport to the dump.
The response from the Minister of Northern Affairs was that the Liberal government increased its tax dollars going to corporate greed. It added $163.5 million to address food insecurity in the north. A study showed that for every dollar in the subsidy, only a third was used; the rest went to corporate greed. The North West Company received about $67 million from the nutrition north program. These tax dollars are supposed to help alleviate poverty.
In a written question to the Liberal government, I asked what quality assurance mechanisms were in place to ensure that perishable goods from all sources reach their final retail destination prior to their best before date.
The response states, “Nutrition North Canada does not implement or enforce quality assurance mechanisms on retailers and suppliers. Registered retailers and suppliers are responsible for managing the logistics of their respective supply chains, and Nutrition North Canada's subsidy helps to reduce the selling price of food for customers by offsetting considerable operational costs. Any grocery retailers regardless of location will have product which cannot be sold related to dating, as its normal part of the operation.” It further states, “Nutrition North Canada does not implement or enforce quality assurance mechanisms on retailers and suppliers.”
Given the lack of informed responses from the Liberal Minister of Northern Affairs, I was compelled to call on the CEO of The North West Company, the CEOs of Northern Airways and the CEO of a local co-operative in Kimmirut, the Kimik Co-Op.
During that session at the indigenous and northern affairs committee, we revealed that The North West Company CEO made over a million dollars in bonuses in 2023, on top of the $3 million and $5 million bonuses he had received in 2022 and 2021. Meanwhile, salaries for workers in Iqaluit, like cashiers, are only at $37,000 a year. This might sound like a lot to southern Canada, but this means that those workers are living below the poverty rate.
Amautiit Nunavut Inuit Women's Association recently released Nunavut's first-ever report card on child poverty. In it, they urged immediate action. They reported that Nunavut families continue to grapple with food insecurity and continue to experience barriers to nutritious and culturally relevant food. In their report, they state that while there is no figure for Nunavut, Ontario's threshold for poverty is $45,324. The report showed that in 2021, Nunavut had the highest child poverty rate under 18 at 35.8%, compared to all other jurisdictions.
I have been told that the nutrition north program is not working, over and over again. It took me almost three years, due to the the size of Nunavut, to reach all the 25 fly-in communities I represent. In each community, the biggest issue was always housing, but close to the biggest issue of housing, the cost of groceries was always at the top of a list of issues for Nunavummiut to be able to thrive.
All the time, they share the prices of food, and whenever I have been in the communities, I have checked the prices myself. In Kimmirut, at the Kimik Co-Op and at the Northern store, in that same day, I compared the prices of eggs that were offered. The price of a dozen eggs at the Co-op Kimik store was $3.99. I think that is comparable to southern prices. In that same community, on that same day, the price of a dozen eggs at The North West Company store was $6.49. That is almost a $3 difference.
When the Minister of Northern Affairs says that parts of the program are working, it is due to the local Co-ops taking advantage of the program the way they are supposed to, in order to reduce prices of nutritious food. It is the local Co-ops in Nunavut communities that are helping their communities to afford quality food. Corporations like The North West Company are not helping to alleviate the cost of food.
One final comment I wanted to make is about the carbon tax. Nunavut is exempt from carbon tax on aviation fuel. As I said earlier, all 25 communities are fly-in communities. When groceries are being flown to communities, there is no carbon tax on the groceries that are being flown in, which can be attributed to the cost of shipping nutritious food to Nunavummiut.
I welcome the opportunity to answer questions.
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- Jun/4/24 12:17:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I did an analysis, following publicly available data from credible sources. It said that the impact of the carbon tax on a loaf of bread in a jurisdiction where the federal plan applies is 0.2¢ a loaf.
With that, I will ask the hon. member whether the Conservatives need to be called out on the narrative they continue to spin, which is that somehow the carbon tax is responsible for high food prices and maybe the corporate profits.
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- Jun/4/24 12:17:59 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, the NDP has been calling out the Conservatives on their disinformation to Canadians. As I said, when it comes to the fly-in communities that this program is supposed to support, all flights going to Nunavut are exempt from carbon tax, so we cannot attribute the increased cost of food to the carbon tax.
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- Jun/4/24 12:18:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as far as the cost of living in northern communities, while aviation fuel might be exempt from the carbon tax, what about the cost of fuel for transportation from the stores back to people's homes? I imagine people in northern communities live further away from grocery stores.
How much does the carbon tax impact that cost? Does that increase the cost of living in northern Canada?
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- Jun/4/24 12:19:07 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I can only speak to how things work in Nunavut. As I said, all the communities I represent are fly-in communities. It has taken me almost three years to get to all of them.
When I see the efforts of the nutrition north program being used properly by businesses like local co-ops, those kinds of programs can work if they are used the way they are intended to be used. The Liberal government is not doing its job, which is to make improvements to the Conservative-created program.
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- Jun/4/24 12:19:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, qujannamiik to my colleague from Nunavut, with whom I was pleased to work on the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.
I am happy that we are talking a little about the north today. Rural and remote communities, in particular indigenous and Inuit communities, often face difficulties due to their geographical remoteness.
My colleague touched on the issue of housing. Obviously, we are talking about nutrition. This is nothing new. People in the north have been dealing with this issue for decades. Of course, when the entire population sees that there is a problem, our instinct is to tackle it head on. However, potential solutions have already been proposed for the north.
I would like to hear more from my colleague about this issue and what she has to say about nutrition north Canada. Concerning the question of food security, does my colleague have other solutions to propose for regions like hers and mine?
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- Jun/4/24 12:20:47 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I very much enjoyed working with the member when she was at the indigenous and northern affairs committee.
Great solutions have been provided from reports like the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls for action, and the MMIWG's calls for justice. In the other report I mentioned, recommendations were made by Amautiit Nunavut Inuit Women’s Association.
Coming from the NDP, my colleague from Winnipeg Centre has a great bill, which proposes a universal basic income for people who struggle with reaching at least some threshold of income.
Great work is being done and part of what we could be doing is ensuring that Leah Gazan's bill is supported by all parties.
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- Jun/4/24 12:21:56 p.m.
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I will remind members not to use the proper names of members in the House. The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre is what I think the hon. member meant.
The hon. member for Victoria.
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- Jun/4/24 12:22:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Canadians need relief from high food prices. We know that across the country, Canadians are struggling. Over the past three years, the cost of food has gone up and up, with increases of over 20%. The use of food banks is at a 35-year high and one in five Canadians is skipping meals.
At the same time that Canadians are struggling, the biggest grocery store chains are making record profits. Loblaws has almost doubled its profit margin in the past five years. Metro has the biggest profit margin of any grocery company. Canadians know that they are struggling because of corporate greed, yet the Liberals and the Conservatives are presenting almost nothing when it comes to tackling the issue of price gouging, of corporate greed driving up costs. The Liberals and the Conservatives have failed to protect Canadians. Consumers, more and more, are recognizing that they want a government that has the courage and the conviction to take on these big grocery store giants.
Across Canada, people are boycotting Loblaws, and this is a reaction to government inaction. Despite months of promises, the government has not actually taken meaningful action. To have the Prime Minister ask grocery stores nicely if they would please sign on to a grocery store code of conduct is not how we tackle corporate greed. Instead of going after corporate greed, the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition are handing out money to these companies. They are feeding the greed of these massive corporations.
The Liberals gave out $25 million of our taxpayer dollars to Loblaws and to Costco. This was while they were already making massive profits. Pierre Poilievre was in government when the Conservatives—
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- Jun/4/24 12:24:43 p.m.
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The hon. member knows that we cannot use proper names.
The hon. member for Victoria.
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- Jun/4/24 12:24:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this is on top of the fact that the Leader of the Opposition was in government when the Conservatives gave out massive corporate handouts, $2.35 billion, to big grocers, which the Liberals have maintained. We can see very clearly that the Conservatives and the Liberals have been making life easier for the biggest corporations, which makes life harder for everyday Canadians.
It is government's responsibility to make life better for Canadians. It is why we, my NDP colleagues and I, are taking corporate greed head on. We are taking it on when it comes to grocery store chains, when it comes to oil and gas companies and when it comes to the big banks. We have been calling for an excess profit tax on all these sectors. We were able to force the Liberals to implement a one-time tax on the biggest banks, but they refused to extend that to big box stores, to the grocery store chains that are gouging Canadians, while Canadians are going to food banks in record numbers. They refused to put that excess profit tax on the oil and gas companies that are fuelling the climate crisis, while raking in record profits and scaling back their climate commitments.
We need to stop greedy corporations from ripping Canadians off on the food they need. We need a government that takes its responsibility seriously to protect Canadians, whether it is from the greed of grocery store chains, whether it is from the greed of oil and gas companies or the biggest banks that are funding and fuelling the the oil and gas companies. These changes are long needed, and Canadians can see clearly that the government is failing.
Food should be affordable for everyone. The Conservatives and the Liberals have a choice. Will they keep standing with the biggest corporations, with the grocery CEOs who are getting million-dollar bonuses, or are they going to stand with Canadians who need a government that has their back, that will take the action needed to lower food prices?
We are asking the government to force big grocery chains and suppliers to lower their prices of essential foods. If they do not, then the government has to put in place a price cap or use other measures and penalties. We have seen this around the world. France and Greece are taking bold action to ensure that on essential commodities, the things that people need to live, companies cannot drive up the price just to pad their pockets, just to give their CEOs millions of dollars in bonuses and their shareholders billions of dollars in profits.
We know that the biggest grocery store chains have control over some of their prices. They have announced price freezes on store name brands. We saw that with no name products. All of these grocery stores have their own brands. A cap on prices on these items is clearly within their control. However, the government cannot just ask nicely if those grocery stores might please, voluntarily, maybe freeze prices. The government needs to force them to make this change.
So far, the Liberals have promised Canadians that they will stabilize food prices, but they have failed to do it. The Prime Minister has asked the grocery store chains to come up with a plan to lower prices. When asked what would happen if they did not, the Prime Minister said, “If their plan doesn't provide real relief ... then we will—
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