SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 330 - Jun/12/24

Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Jun/12/24 6:22:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am back again tonight to continue calling on the government to fix the Canada disability benefit. To sum up where we are now, this is critical because 40% of the people living in poverty across the country are folks with disabilities. This is the case because provincial and territorial programs are all below the poverty line. In the province of Ontario, for example, the Ontario disability support program totals just over $1,300 a month. In Kitchener, for example, that does not get most people one month's rent on an apartment, and it is about $1,000 below the poverty line. Folks with disabilities across the country and the disability community advocated for the government to introduce a federal benefit that would supplement these inadequate provincial and territorial programs. It was promised by the government years ago. It was in the Liberals' 2021 election platform, which they campaigned on. It was to be called the Canada disability benefit, and they put forward that it would lift at least hundreds of thousands of folks with disabilities out of poverty. Now, as a result of those commitments, we did see legislation get passed, and we saw the first version of a proposal for the Canada disability benefit in this year's budget. However, the issue is that what is being proposed is not what the disability community had been calling for. The Liberals are proposing it to be a maximum of $200 a month, or about $6 a day. They are proposing for it to only be delivered to folks who have access to the disability tax credit, which is an incredibly burdensome credit to get access to, and they are proposing that it not start until July of next year, which is about three months before the next fixed election date. Here is what folks in the disability community have to say, and I will just share two briefly tonight. Krista Carr from Inclusion Canada said, “Our disappointment cannot be overstated.... This benefit was supposed to lift persons with disabilities out of poverty, not merely make them marginally less poor than they already are.” I have read the words from Kate before in the House. She said, “This budget announcement of adding a max of 200 more a month to a select few disabled people is The Most Liberal Party thing I've ever seen”. As a result, at committee, I asked the minister a series of questions, including how many people with disabilities would be lifted out of poverty and who in their consultations asked for this. Last week, we finally got some answers, and they were disappointing. The minister has not met with all of her provincial counterparts, including Ontario. Nothing is scheduled there. The benefit will not lift hundreds of thousands out of poverty, but it will be about 25,000, or about 2% of folks with disabilities living in poverty. Also, for all they talk about “nothing without us”, only 3% of respondents to the Liberals' online survey indicated support for the disability tax credit to be the sole eligibility criteria. It is clear now that the Canada disability benefit that they are proposing did not come from the disability community. My question to the parliamentary secretary is the same that I asked months ago. If this proposal did not come from the disability community, who is it that asked for what the government is proposing to be in the Canada disability benefit after three years of supposedly consulting with the disability community?

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Mr. Marc Serré (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources and to the Minister of Official Languages, Lib.)

Jun/12/24 6:26:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first, I want to the thank the member for Kitchener Centre for his continued advocacy on behalf of persons with disabilities. We are on track to deliver the first-ever federal disability benefit. The design and implementation work is in progress. We must get this additional support to the people who need it as quickly as possible. The Canada disability benefit is a major milestone in a strong and unwavering commitment to create a more inclusive and fairer Canada. In budget 2024, we are committing to invest $6.1 billion over six years, beginning in 2024-25, and $1.4 billion per year ongoing. To repeat, budget 2024 has $6.1 billion, which is the single largest line item in the budget of 2024, so it is really important. I want to thank all of those who have been relentless in their advocacy and their championing the needs and priorities of people with disabilities. In the spirit of “nothing without us”, we will continue to listen and engage with the disability community in the next phase of delivering this historical benefit as we work towards the regulatory process. Members can rest assured that, in July, 2025, eligible Canadians will receive their first payment. It will help over 600,000 Canadians with the cost of groceries, transit and equipment. The Canada disability benefit has a clear objective: to help reduce poverty among working-age persons with disabilities. We have said it before and I will say it again: The benefit is intended to complement, not replace, existing provincial and territorial income supports for persons with disabilities. We need to work with the provinces to make sure there would be no clawbacks. We aspire for the benefit to grow over time in a responsible and meaningful way in collaboration with the provinces. Our goal is that all persons with disabilities would be better off because of the benefit. As everyone can see, the process is a huge undertaking, and we must ensure that it is done right. We cannot cut corners, and we need to let the consultation play out. Broad, meaningful and barrier-free consultation with the disability community is important, not just because it is required in the new Canada Disability Benefit Act but also because it is fundamental, and we believe it is the way to go to make sure that we improve the lives of people with disabilities. The work is ongoing. It is working well. We are on track towards providing the first benefit payment in July 2025.

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Mr. Mike Morrice

Jun/12/24 6:29:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary is a friend, and I know he is speaking from the heart, but if he and others in the government are calling the benefit a major milestone but the disability community, the community that is meant to be supported by the benefit, is not, we have problems here. One of the problems is the consultation process the member mentioned. The consultation is in there because it is an amendment I had added to the bill almost two years ago. The issue, though, is that for all the talk of listening, consultation and “we hear you”, the fact is that the disability community is trying to tell the government that the things folks with disabilities have been calling for are not in the benefit. What they are trying to get the government to understand is that it must do better. There is talk that it might grow over time. What we need to see is that it is a matter of urgency to recognize that the number of people with disabilities living in poverty, in my community and others, is a crisis. I hope he is going to step up and do more about it.

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Mr. Marc Serré

Jun/12/24 6:30:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, since 2015 we have cut the poverty rate in half in Canada. We have lifted more than two million Canadians out of poverty, including more than 650,000 children. We are not slowing down. We have focused our efforts on our social safety net to support the most vulnerable, including people with disabilities. It is unacceptable that people with disabilities should be more likely to live below the poverty line than people without disabilities. The benefit would be the first-ever federal benefit for persons with disabilities, with extra financial security to over 600,000 Canadians who need it the most. By 2028, the Canada disability benefit would lift, as the member mentioned, 25,000 working-age persons with disabilities and 15,000 of their family members out of poverty each year. This is the next step in the progression of disability rights in Canada, not a destination. Our government will continue to champion the needs and the priorities of people with disabilities as we build a fairer and more inclusive Canada for all.

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Hon. Andrew Scheer (Regina—Qu'Appelle, CPC)

Jun/12/24 6:32:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, a short while ago, I asked the finance minister a question during question period and was completely unsatisfied with the response, so here we are trying to get some details from the tax-and-spend Liberal government. We have now known for months, if not years, that Canadians are worse off with the carbon tax than with any rebate that the government claims that they would enjoy. We know this because we experience it. We all go out and fill up our cars. We pay our home heating bills. We see the prices in grocery stores of anything that has to be grown, shipped, refrigerated or heated. All of those extra costs get passed on to the consumer. This is what Conservatives warned Canadians about in the last few cycles. We said that the government would never be satisfied with the rate of the carbon tax, that the government would increase it. The former environment minister, Catherine McKenna, accused Conservatives of making that up. In fact, many of her friends and Liberal friends in the mainstream media, the government-funded, taxpayer-subsidized mainstream media, carried that message for her. Then she was caught on tape saying that if one wants to get people to believe what one is saying, one just has to keep saying it louder, over and over again. Even if it is not true, people will begin to believe what one said. That is the Liberals' attitude towards voters: Just repeat the lie louder and louder, more and more often, and eventually people will believe what they are saying. However, the fact is that we cannot argue with numbers. We cannot argue with math. No matter how many times Liberals say something here in this House, on television, or out in the communities, it will never take away from the fact that every single time a Canadian family struggles to pay that grocery bill or gets hit by an even higher home heating bill, or winces as they see the fuel pump tick over $100 for that fill, they know what the math shows, that they are worse off with the carbon tax. The Parliamentary Budget Officer has confirmed that. The Parliamentary Budget Officer looked at all of the costs of the carbon tax, not just what we pay directly, which are the fiscal costs of the carbon tax. A person will see the carbon tax, that fiscal cost, on their fuel bill after filling up their car. A person will see the carbon tax on their home heating bill. In many cases it is rising to 25%, 30% or even 40%, of the total bill itself, meaning it is almost as expensive as the fuel that we are using, whether it is natural gas or otherwise, to heat our homes. Those are fiscal costs. That direct line item people see when they pay a bill is called a fiscal cost. The economic costs are a little bit difficult to see, but they still have a cost, nonetheless. The economic costs are the cascading effect of all those price increases; the fact that the retailer who sells the food has to make up for the fact that they pay higher utility costs, the fact that the farmer who grows the food has to pay to get it shipped, has to pay to fertilize it, to combine it, to store it, to dry it and to ship it. All of those businesses have less money to pay higher wages or to make investments in expansions. When we factor those costs in, Canadians are far worse off. The government is trying to only look at the fiscal costs, only look at one side of the ledger. Here is the thing. Canadians do not have a choice. They cannot pick and choose which costs they are going to pay. They have to pay all of them. There is a report that the Government of Canada has possession of. The government produced the report. It has studied the report. The government has shown it to the Parliamentary Budget Officer, but it will not show Canadians the report. My question last week is the same as it is tonight: Why will the government not just show Canadians what its own report says about the total cost of the carbon tax?

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Mr. Marc Serré (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources and to the Minister of Official Languages, Lib.)

Jun/12/24 6:36:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleagues and I have met regularly with Canadians and their families who are struggling to pay their bills. The member for Regina—Qu'Appelle never mentioned the Canada rebate to give more money to Canadians. He never referred to misleading comments that he made even today. In budget 2024, we have taken bold actions to make life cost less, such as, for example, $10-a-day child care, dental care for uninsured Canadians and the first phase of the national universal pharmacare program, which the member and his party voted against. Budget 2024 also enables the government to lower everyday costs for Canadians. We are taking action on a lot of these measures, which include stabilizing prices for groceries, cracking down on junk fees to make prices fairer and lowering the cost of banking. We are also committed to launching a new national school food program and a new disability benefit program that the member and his party voted against. To be clear, all proceeds from the federal pollution pricing system are returned to the province where they were collected. As we have said repeatedly in the House, the households most in need of getting money back will receive the Canada carbon rebate. More than eight out of 10 Canadians will benefit from this system. In provinces where the federal program is in effect, including Ontario, eight out of 10 Canadians will get more money back than they spend, thanks to the Canada carbon rebate. Low-income households, which the member never mentions, will benefit the most from this rebate. They will be able to buy the things they need with this money. Another important point to remember is this. The Bank of Canada has already said that fuel charges contribute only a fraction of 1%. The member never mentions this. It is misleading Canadians again. It is 0.15% toward the increase. That is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer said. Hon. Andrew Scheer: That is not true. It is incorrect. Mr. Marc Serré: Mr. Speaker, the member is chirping again. That is what the Parliamentary Budget Officer and the Bank of Canada said: 0.15%. It is really insulting that the member opposite continues to use carbon pricing as a way to scare Canadians who are struggling to pay their bills. Carbon pricing is not the cause of the hike in grocery prices. The Bank of Canada confirmed this already multiple times. There are also exemptions to support our farmers. There are also emissions, for agricultural support, that are not subject to carbon pricing. We provide exemptions for gasoline, diesel, fuel used by farmers in agricultural activities, and there is no price on emissions for livestock. It is also partially refundable. There are a number of factors at play that the member always fails to mention. We have listened to Canadians and made adjustments for those who need it most. I ask the member opposite to stop spreading misinformation in this House. Carbon pricing works. The member should listen to the experts. We have also heard clearly from citizen climate groups like Fridays for Future and students. We need to listen to the experts. Carbon pricing is a mechanism that reduces emissions, and Canada is benefiting from it.

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Hon. Andrew Scheer

Jun/12/24 6:39:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are so many things wrong in what the parliamentary secretary said. I did mention the rebate. I pointed out that the vast majority of Canadians are worse off even with the rebate, because they have to pay all the costs. He had nothing to say to that. He wants to get a gold star and a pat on the back because the Liberals have not applied the carbon tax to even more things. I am sorry, but Conservatives are not going to do that. The carbon tax is not helping the government achieve its emissions targets. Since the government implemented the carbon tax, and hiked it year after year, Canada has fallen to 62nd out of 67 countries. We are worse off today on that metric than before the Prime Minister took over. There is an easy way to settle this. No one has to take my word for it or the hon. member's word for it. Why will the Liberals not just table their own secret report, lift the gag order on the PBO and show Canadians the numbers so that they can make up their own minds? Why not just do that?

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Mr. Marc Serré

Jun/12/24 6:40:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is no gag order. There is no secret report. Again, that is misinformation from the member. Our emissions are down to what they were in 2005, so our plan is working. We have to do more. That is why pollution pricing alone can deliver a third of the greenhouse gas emission reductions we need to achieve to tackle climate change. Pollution pricing is a major pillar in our plan to tackle climate change. The opposition party has no plan other than to let the planet burn. The price on pollution returns the proceeds to Canadians directly. It is the most efficient and affordable way to fight climate change and reduce our emissions.

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The Deputy Speaker

Jun/12/24 6:41:20 p.m.
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The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1). (The House adjourned at 6:41 p.m.)

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