SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 331 - Jun/13/24

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/13/24 6:36:24 p.m.
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Can we please check to see if the interpretation is working? The interpretation is working now. The hon. President of the Treasury Board.

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Hon. Anita Anand

Jun/13/24 6:36:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was saying that I really urge all parties to vote in favour of supports for new housing, supports for the Canadian Armed Forces and supports for Canadians via ESDC. These are measures that are important for the functioning of our country and for the protection and defence of our country. I am sure that all members of this House will recognize that importance. In terms of the supplementary estimates (A), the estimates present a total of $12.7 billion in incremental budgetary spending, which reflects $11.2 billion to be voted on and a $1.5-billion increase in forecast statutory expenditures. The primary objectives for that new voted spending on the organizations responsible for that spending are settlements to address past grievances and historic harms committed against indigenous peoples. For example, $1.8 billion is for agricultural benefits and claims and $1.5 billion is for federal Indian day schools and Indian residential schools day scholar settlements. Funds are also requested by Citizenship and Immigration Canada for support and services for migrants, such as $411 million for the interim federal health program. Finally, $604.9 million is requested by Transport Canada for purchase incentives for zero-emission vehicles. The main estimates also include additional information about an important priority for our government: refocusing government spending, as first announced in budget 2023. At the beginning of this exercise, I asked ministers to find savings in their organizations. We have already announced some results. I also want to say that, with this initiative, we will refocus our government's spending on Canadians' current priorities while ensuring that we do not reduce the direct supports and services Canadians need. As indicated in the main estimates, the government is on track to refocus $15.8 billion over five years and $4.8 billion annually thereafter. This is a very important exercise. It is our government's first initiative to address government spending. The goal of the exercise is to refocus spending, in other words, to spend smarter. The goal is not to reduce the programs and services Canadians rely on. The fact of the matter is that the government is doing what Canadians across our country are doing, which is examining their own pocketbooks. By refocusing funds to Canadians' most important priorities in this way, the government is ensuring that it can continue to invest in Canadians and in the Canadian economy for years to come. I want to assure members that this process is and will continue to be fully transparent, as it has been from the start. The government will continue to provide details on the initiative through departmental plans and departmental results reports. To that end, the estimates support Parliament's review of proposed new government spending and the bills ensuring appropriation that will occur thereafter. Every year, the main estimates and related documents provide clear insight into how the government proposes to allocate taxpayer dollars and help to ensure that our spending is transparent and accountable. I cannot overstate the importance of this information to the functioning of our system of government and our parliamentary democracy. In safeguarding our democracy, exercising oversight of government spending is one of the most important roles that parliamentarians can play on behalf of our citizens. To conclude, I would like to say that funding in the main estimates and supplementary estimates (A) is important to delivering on the government's commitment to the health and well-being of Canadians as well as other key priorities: affordable housing, health care, dental care and supports for Canadian families, the elderly included. That is what we will continue to put on the table. That is what we urge all members of this House to vote in favour of, and to that end, I will encourage us all to support the motion before us.

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Mr. Kelly McCauley (Edmonton West, CPC)

Jun/13/24 6:42:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board talked about providing clear insight into spending in the departmental plans and the estimates process, as well as transparency on all government spending, yet the departmental plans and the departmental results show that almost one-quarter of departments had zero targets set and zero dates set to achieve such targets. How is Parliament supposed to be providing oversight and proper vetting of spending when the government itself is not even providing targets for the spending or what it plans to achieve in the spending on fully one-quarter of its programs?

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Hon. Anita Anand

Jun/13/24 6:43:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as always, I enjoy receiving the hon. member's astute questions, including at committee, but if we look across the departmental results reports and the departmental plans, oversight is being done through those plans and through the results reports that we publish every year. In certain cases, the targets, if they have been recently set, need sufficient time to be filled in, but let us make no mistake: They will be filled in by the departments' deputy ministers, and we certainly put the message out to deputy ministers to make sure that their departmental results reports are as complete as possible. We believe strongly in transparency. That is why I recently published our trust and transparency overall strategy for the Government of Canada. That includes not only departmental results reports but also a strategy to engage the Canadian public in ensuring a more transparent government and in ensuring that we have time limits relating to the release of information that is requested through ATIP. Members can see that we do have a commitment to transparency across the board.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Jun/13/24 6:44:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to ask the minister a question on a topic she is quite familiar with because of her former role. What does she think about the budget being allocated to defence across the country? As a member of NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Canada should theoretically be investing 2% of its GDP in defence, but that is not happening. It is not clear that the plan that has been presented will help Canada meet that target. Could she elaborate on that? I think it is a bit surreal that a Bloc MP is asking that question, but I think it is important.

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Hon. Anita Anand

Jun/13/24 6:45:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate my hon. colleague's question very much. We continue to support the Canadian Armed Forces, for example by providing $28.8 billion in our budget. We continue to support them with other measures as well. We recently released an update to our defence policy. It increases our spending for the Canadian Armed Forces, and we continue to increase our spending to achieve the 2% target, but there is still a lot of work to be done on that score, and that includes our procurement and our work with our NATO allies, as well as with the United States. I would like to mention that when I was minister of national defence, I announced $40 million for NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, for our continental defences, especially in the Arctic. It is a priority for our government and for me too.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

Jun/13/24 6:46:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, one of the things we have found most disappointing in the recent budget has been the failure to support people living with disabilities. The amount that has been allocated is about six dollars a day. It will not scratch the surface. We know that every community and every country must be judged by how we treat those who are most vulnerable within our community. The failure to support those who need the most support from the government is really shocking. I am wondering what the minister has to say about the fact that her government has by and large abandoned people living with disabilities in this country after promising them and giving them hope that there would be something for them in the budget.

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Hon. Anita Anand

Jun/13/24 6:47:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we know that there is more work to do, but I want to underline that this is the first time in the history of Canada that a disability benefit has been introduced. I would like to say that we are the government that put that on the table, and we are the government that will continue to work with persons with disabilities to ensure that we are augmenting the supports across the board. It is an issue I take very seriously, accessibility across the board, at the Treasury Board Secretariat. I know my colleagues in the House and across government will agree with me that we are standing behind the community of persons with disabilities.

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs (Cybersecurity), Lib.)

Jun/13/24 6:48:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to the main estimates One of the key components to our estimates process is to ensure that we have an open, transparent and accountable government. Canadians and the parliamentarians who represent them have a right to know how public funds are being spent so they can hold government to account. That is why, in addition to the estimates documents, reporting tools such as the GC InfoBase and the Open Government portal provide easily accessible and easy-to-understand information to Canadians about authorities approved by Parliament. With respect to the specific numbers, I will begin with the highlights of the main estimates for 2024-25. This year's main estimates present a total of $191.6 billion in voted-on spending. Also presented are non-budgetary expenditures of $1.2 billion. Some significant investments included in these estimates are $28.8 billion for national defence, including support for Ukraine, and training and equipment for the Canadian Armed Forces; $20.9 billion for Indigenous Services for programs for indigenous communities and legal settlements; $8.4 billion for Global Affairs Canada to advance Canada's international relations; $8.4 billion for Health Canada, including funding to expand the Canadian dental care plan; and $5.6 billion for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation for much-needed housing infrastructure. All the funding in the main estimates allows the government to provide many different programs and services to Canadians and support other levels of government, organizations and individuals through transfer payments. The statutory spending in the estimates, which is the spending that has been approved in previous legislation, includes $81.1 billion in elderly benefits, $52.1 billion for the Canada health transfer, $25.3 billion for fiscal equalization, $16.9 billion for the Canada social transfer and $11.4 billion for the Canada carbon rebate. I would now like to turn to the supplementary estimates (A). Overall, the estimates present a total of $12.7 billion in programs and supports for Canadians. Here are some of the highlights. First I would like to note that much of the new voted spending is requested by Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada for settlements with indigenous groups. As the Prime Minister has stated on several occasions, no relationship is more important to Canada than our relationship with indigenous peoples. This is why we are continuing to work collaboratively with indigenous peoples to honour treaty rights and resolve historical wrongs. To that end, the supplementary estimates include $1.8 billion for agricultural benefits claims. These funds would support the negotiation and settlement of agricultural benefit claims related to Treaty Nos. 4, 5, 6 and 10, which are part of a series of 11 treaties made between the Crown and first nations from 1871 to 1921. There is also $1.5 billion for federal Indian day schools and Indian residential schools day scholars settlements. This will be used for compensation, administration costs and legal services relating to these two settlements. There is $1 billion to replenish the specific claims settlement fund, based on anticipated payments for negotiated settlements and tribunal awards up to $150 million. The supplementary estimates also include $447.9 million to settle historical claims, and the federal government is committed to resolving legal challenges through respectful discussions and mediation. As such, it is in active discussions related to various legal challenges. The funding would ensure that Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs is in a position to quickly implement negotiated settlements should agreements be reached. Finally, there is $393.1 million for land-related claims and litigation, and another $303.6 million for a settlement providing compensation for individuals placed in federal Indian boarding homes. There is new voted spending for the Department of Indigenous Services to improve the lives of indigenous peoples and create new opportunities in communities across the country. For example, there is $769.7 million for water and waste-water treatment. This includes the construction of new water and waste-water infrastructure on reserves, repairs and upgrades to existing systems, facility operations and maintenance, training of system operators, water monitoring and testing, and development of local governance capacity. The Department of Indigenous Services is also requesting $633.5 million to improve services that preserve the ability of indigenous families to care for children in their communities, such as the availability of safe and adequate housing for children on reserve. Let me also mention spending for immigration. Canada continues to bring people from other countries to safety and provide them with resettlement and settlement supports. As such, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration is seeking funding for support and services for migrants. This includes $411.2 million for the interim federal health program, which provides limited temporary health care coverage to specific groups of foreign nationals, including asylum claimants and refugees who are not yet eligible for provincial or territorial health insurance. There is also $314.5 million for the interim housing assistance program, through which the government provides funding to provincial and municipal governments to address housing pressures resulting from increased volumes of asylum claimants. As the House knows, a priority of the government is to also cut greenhouse gas emissions. To help meet our 2030 emissions reduction target and reach net zero by 2050, we are making it more affordable for Canadians to switch to zero-emission vehicles. Accordingly, the Department of Transport is requesting $604.9 million to provide purchase incentives of up to $5,000 for eligible zero-emission vehicles. Another organization, the Department of Veterans Affairs, is requesting $471.4 million for compensation and administrative costs relating to settlement for veterans as part of the Manuge class action settlement. I would also note that, of the planned voting, about $1.6 billion relates to the funding announced in budget 2024. This includes the already mentioned incentives for the zero-emission vehicle programs as well as the interim federal health program. The voted funding already announced in the budget also includes $141.2 million for temporary accommodation and support services for asylum claimants, $121.3 million for the Inuit child first initiative and $100.5 million to advance indigenous children and family service laws. I would also like to address the changes in the plan's statutory expenditures, which are shown for information purposes. Statutory budgetary expenditures are forecast to rise $1.5 billion, 0.6%, to a total of $259.1 billion. Finally, there are statutory non-budgetary expenditures. These are forecast to rise, reflecting the additional allocation of $1.3 billion to the International Monetary Fund's Poverty Reduction and Growth Trust announced in September 2023. To conclude, the funding for federal programs and services presented in the main estimates and supplementary estimates (A) demonstrates the government's actions to make life better for all Canadians. It shows that the government is responding to immediate needs while continuing to make long-term investments that benefit all of our citizens. I would remind my hon. colleagues that we have a responsibility to authorize the spending on behalf of and for the benefit of Canadians, and I encourage everyone to support this.

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Mr. Kelly McCauley (Edmonton West, CPC)

Jun/13/24 6:58:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am looking at the main estimates, and Public Safety is asking for $1.6 billion, yet when I look at its departmental results, it failed to achieve 54% of its goals for the year. Why should Canadians trust the Liberal government to continue such spending, $1.6 billion, when it is failing over 50% of the time?

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Jun/13/24 6:58:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as I have said before, Conservative cuts have consequences. While we are investing in public safety to keep Canadians safe, Conservatives would actually cut programs, things like keeping our communities safe with investments in our guns and gangs programming and helping to support young people in their communities. Conservatives cut the budget for public safety and then stand up here and claim that they somehow would provide safer communities. Those cuts have consequences. What we are seeing is that our government investing to keep our communities safe.

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Ms. Sylvie Bérubé (Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, BQ)

Jun/13/24 6:59:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are talking about the government's budget, but what about indigenous people? We know very well that many communities do not even have water. Is there anything for that in the budget? Climate change is also a big problem. People in these communities are even experiencing food insecurity. Seniors aged 65 to 74 have also been forgotten. Is there anything for them in the budget?

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Jun/13/24 6:59:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is absolutely a shame to see any community across this country without clean and safe drinking water. It is precisely why I outlined, in the main estimates, significant funding to help these communities not only to make the infrastructure investments, but also to make the investments in job training to ensure that members of the community can also be part of the continued work ongoing, to ensure that every community right across this country has access to safe and clean drinking water.

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Mr. Kelly McCauley (Edmonton West, CPC)

Jun/13/24 7:00:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to correct the record. If the member looks at the public accounts, she will see that the spending actually started to drop in 2015, as soon as the Liberal government took over. There were cuts to public safety and also to CBSA. As the member talked about safety in the community, I noticed one of the failures of the government was that it set a target of 5,200 police-reported crimes for 100,000 population, yet it actually ended up with 6,625. That was a 27% higher number of police-reported crimes than what the Liberals targeted. Why is the government failing to protect its citizens?

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Jun/13/24 7:00:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on the contrary, Conservatives continually gutted our budgets, including budgets of CBSA, for example to inspect illegal guns and drugs coming into this country. We have made the right kinds of investments to support communities. Conservatives like to cherry-pick numbers without looking at the overall record, and theirs was an abysmal failure. We are making those investments back to keep our communities safe.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Jun/13/24 7:01:31 p.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I want to thank the member for speaking so much to indigenous issues and expenditures for Indigenous Services. Unfortunately, as the member knows, because there has been underinvestment for decades, including in this budget, with upwards of a $425-billion infrastructure gap, these expenses that we are going to see are only going to address 1% of the infrastructure needs for indigenous peoples. If the Prime Minister does say that there is no relationship more important than that with the first nations, Inuit and Métis, why has the Liberal government spent so little to improve indigenous people's lives?

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell

Jun/13/24 7:02:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I agree with the member that there have been decades of underinvestment in our indigenous communities, and it is something that we must continue to invest in and support. We will continue to make those investments. We are going to make sure that we are doing it with each community, making sure that we get this right, and we are committed to doing so.

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Mrs. Stephanie Kusie (Calgary Midnapore, CPC)

Jun/13/24 7:03:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is the evening when we vote on the estimates, and they are estimates, in fact, because we really never know how much the government is going to spend, so we really can only estimate. Today proves to be no different. This is the result of two things. First, there is the complete out-of-control spending by the Liberal government. We have seen it since 2015, but it has increased rapidly since 2020, and now it is just completely out of control. The second thing, as a result of this out-of-control spending, is that the government makes Canadians pay for its incompetence and for its moral disregard, time and time again. This has three negative effects on the nation. It taxes generational wealth. It taxes the middle class. It destroys productivity. Let us take a quick look at the numbers to justify what I am saying. We have a current deficit of $39.8 billion. In the beginning, I used to have to double-check myself to see if I was supposed to be saying “million”. Now, I feel very confident in saying billion because it is, in fact, $39.8 billion. There is new spending of $52.9 billion, which is a huge number. There are debt servicing costs of $54.1 billion and additional debt servicing costs of $1.9 billion. That was a surprise I raised at the government operations committee to the President of the Treasury Board, which I think I would notice an anomaly like that on my credit card, were that the case. The government claims to have refocused $15.4 billion of spending. That was the government's initiative, but that initiative is 3.5 times less than the actual amount of new spending. There is quite a differentiation between the two. We see here a government that just has an absolute spending problem. In fact, it was reported in The Globe and Mail, in an article I have. It states, “the government does not have a revenue problem. Annual federal revenue is increasing and has grown (nominally) more than $185-billion (or 66.2 per cent) from 2014-15 to 2023-24. “Before tabling the budget in April, the government was already anticipating annual revenue to increase by more than $27-billion this year. But the government has chosen to spend every dime it takes in (and then some) instead of being disciplined. “Years of unrestrained spending and borrowing have led to a precarious fiscal situation in Ottawa.” The government “largely chose” to continue spending, and “clearly raising taxes to generate revenue was unnecessary and could have been avoided with more disciplined spending.” It was unnecessary. Next, I would like to provide some examples of that wasteful spending. There was the $169.5 million sole-sourced contract for ventilators purchased at $220,000 each, that have now been sold for $6 apiece for scrap. That is the first example. The second example is Parks Canada spending $12 million on culling deer in British Columbia, a job my caucus colleagues say that Canadian hunters would have done for free. The Auditor General identified at least $32 billion in overpayments and suspicious payments by ESDC, which is not a surprise at all with the current government. In March, the Parliamentary Budget Officer, someone the government likes to gag, released a report, warning that the Prime Minister's government spending plans remained out of control. The amount that taxpayers spend just to service the national debt is expected to go up 33.4% in 2024 and 11.6% in 2025. That means the amount we pay just to cover the interest on the national debt will rise from $35 billion to $46.7 billion in 2024 and to $52.1 billion in 2025. It is important to put those figures in perspective because those debt payments offer no services and rob precious dollars from services that the government likes to brag about. The debt payments will be double the amount we will spend on the military. When I make reference to these amounts, they are not small amounts that I am referring to. I will now turn to the second part, which is the pain that the government inflicts upon its citizens in an effort to compensate for its spending problem. This is out of incompetence and a lack of moral guidance. The first example I will give is from an article in The Globe and Mail. It states, “50 per cent of taxpayers who claim more than $250,000 [worth] of capital gains in a year earned less than $117,592 in normal annual income from 2011 to 2021.... Contrary to the government's claims, the capital gains tax...will [actually] affect 4.74 million investors in [different] Canadian companies.” This also means, as I said, regarding the productivity, as it says in the article, “that potential entrepreneurs or investors are more likely to take their ideas and money elsewhere, and Canadians will continue to suffer the consequences of a stagnating economy.” On the carbon tax, just this week Canadians discovered that, for years, the Prime Minister has been hiding the fact that the carbon tax will cost Canadians $30.5 billion by 2030 and that this works out to $1,824 per family in extra annual costs. As well, I will be splitting my time with the wonderful member for Northumberland—Peterborough South, an individual I like and enjoy very much. I will continue with my examples. CTV News wrote that Joseph Steinberg, an associate professor with the University of Toronto's economic department, said, “I don't think that this...policy is likely to be successful”. He also said, “Given what my research into policies on raising taxes on the wealthy has found...since we don't enforce any rules against tax avoidance and tax evasion, these kinds of policies are really unlikely to raise much, if any, in the way of tax revenues.” This is not surprising given the ESDC fraud I mentioned moments ago. The CTV news article went on to say, “The Canada Revenue Agency estimates Canada loses nearly $3 billion a year in offshore investing, which is close to how much the government projects to bring in each year with the changes.” In addition, economist Jack Mintz estimated that “1.25 million individuals—not just 44,000—will make a capital gain greater than $250,000 at some time in their taxpaying life”, not just this year alone. He states, “Many of these people will have relatively modest incomes and only earn extraordinary capital gains at retirement or death.” The official opposition shares these stories every day, during question period and in our interventions, in the House of Commons. Jack Mintz says, “How many Canadian investors would be affected by higher capital gains taxes at both the personal and corporate level? In 2021, 4.74 million tax filers (15.7 per cent).... Of those, 69 per cent—3.29 million—had incomes below $100,000.” They are the middle class. He goes on to say, “The increase in corporate capital gains tax is going to hurt many Canadians investors with middle or modest incomes.” The Globe and Mail states, “the Liberal plan to raise the taxable portion of capital gains over $250,000 for individuals, and of all capital gains for corporations in most trusts, is not the end result of a careful examination of tax policy, but of the Liberals' need to raise billions of dollars to plug a hole in their latest budget.” The government is always reactive. The article goes on to say, “The increase to the capital-gains inclusion rate will take place [right] when Canada's lagging productivity needs a boost. Higher taxes on investment will be a drag on the economy and could harm our diminishing prosperity.” The government has had years in office to address the issues dominating Canadian politics today, such as housing costs, affordability and, yes, the income gap, which has grown steadily since 2015, yet it has failed to address these. The Financial Post has a headline I love, which reads, “Liberals playing with inclusion rates is divisive policy at its worst”. The article states, “the government ignored almost every single recommendation made about the proposals by very qualified people and great organizations. The Joint Committee on Taxation of the Canadian Bar Association and CPA Canada made some excellent technical recommendations [that were ignored].” Thomas Sowell is quoted in the article as saying, “The real goal should be reduced government spending, rather than balanced budgets achieved by ever-rising tax rates to cover [increasing] spending.” As I come to the last 30 seconds of my speech, I would just like to reiterate what I said at the beginning. The current government has a significant spending problem, which is evident by the numbers I have put here today. It does not responsibly address it through lowering its spending and through not having unethical overspending like we see with the arrive scam and the green slush fund; rather, the government enforces this on Canadians. It makes them pay for its incompetence and for its moral disregard through tools like the carbon tax and the capital gains tax. This has to stop. Tonight in the estimates, though, we are not going to—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/13/24 7:13:14 p.m.
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Questions and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety.

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Ms. Jennifer O'Connell (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs (Cybersecurity), Lib.)

Jun/13/24 7:13:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in part of the estimates, we have included funding for the Canada dental care plan. Would the member opposite tell Canadians tonight that this is a program she would recommend we cut and that seniors who need dental care should not have access to that?

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