SoVote

Decentralized Democracy

Ontario Assembly

43rd Parl. 1st Sess.
April 6, 2023 09:00AM
  • Apr/6/23 3:20:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

It is now time for questions and answers.

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  • Apr/6/23 3:20:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

I feel like I’ve just gone through a very painful commercial, because what the government is saying happened in committee is quite different, Madam Speaker—and I have it here in Hansard. Those delegations warned that the legislation “could fatally undermine the public health care system.” That’s a quote. Despite the PC government’s characterizations that we’re fearmongering, in fact proponents of the legislation told the committee the issues raised are legitimate and called on the government to be careful and take steps to avoid or mitigate them.

Even John Yip, who the member quoted, said, “We are aware of the concerns that the bill may widen the health care access gap. We share this concern.”

The radiologists said that investor-driven companies to own for-profit surgical clinics is a bad idea—from Hansard. Then he went on to say, “If you have non-physician owners, they’re going to poach health care workers from the hospital, because their interest is not” in the hospital or the health care system.

We moved amendments to make Bill 60 fairer. Why is this government so determined to undermine public health care in the province of Ontario?

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  • Apr/6/23 3:20:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

I was at committee, and I heard all of the testimony. A number of things raised by witnesses, some of the ones you mentioned—and by the way, every quote I mentioned is actually in Hansard as well, and people heard what those quotes are. A number of the things you mentioned are things that the government is aware of, and the government is taking steps to make sure we are protecting health care workforces in hospitals. We’re working with, as all of the quotes said, health care providers, we’re working with doctors, we’re working with the centralized wait-list management, and we’re working with the new surgical centres and the hospital administrators to make sure that the health care workforce is properly provided and to make sure there is no poaching.

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

Thank you to the member for Markham–Thornhill for his question. Madam Speaker, our government has launched the largest health care recruiting and training initiative in this province’s history. As I spoke about in my speech, we are building on the over 12,000 new nurses that have registered in this province since last year, and our government is also investing in a range of other initiatives. That also includes the “learn and stay” grant, which has been hugely successful, and that’s why we have expanded it to not just nurses but to paramedics as well as medical technologists and medical sciences. So all in all, what I’d say to the member for Thornhill—on top of that, our government announced that we are breaking down registration barriers so that more health care professionals can come and work in this great province.

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

This is probably going to be a first time for me here, but I want to take a moment to actually thank the government for finally listening to one part of this bill that I agree with, which is recognizing international professionals, internationally trained health care workers.

We’re not all there yet with this bill, and I know there are other portions, other bills that have been brought forward, but I remember coming to this House in 2018, for the first time, and bringing this up and then bringing my private member’s bill. To finally see the government take on pieces that I have recommended, pieces that the Ontario NDP has recommended be put in legislation, makes a lot of difference to a lot of Ontarians who are internationally trained who can contribute to our health care system.

So I want to thank the government for doing that, but I think we have a long way to go to make sure that we’re recruiting them properly and retaining them, because that process has been undermined and this bill does not do justice to that. I hope that the government will listen and actually allow for that to happen as well. I’d be happy to hear from any of the members.

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

There is absolutely no doubt that this bill is the beginning of throwing open the door to private, for-profit investor-owned corporations into our public health care system. This is the beginning; let’s make no mistake. And we already have evidence from the Auditor General that these private, for-profit health care facilities are not regulated. There’s no oversight. In fact, the Auditor General said, “More specifically, there’s a higher risk that privately owned organizations may prioritize profits by charging patients for add-ons, and those charges would not be adequately monitored and scrutinized by the ministry.”

So my question to you is—you say that you can guarantee people won’t be overcharged, you can guarantee that they won’t be put to the bottom of a wait-list because of not agreeing to sign up for the add-ons by these private clinics, but you have absolutely no government mechanism to oversee them. What do you say to the Auditor General’s questions about this lack of oversight that you’ve done nothing to address?

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

Thank you to my colleagues the PAs from Newmarket–Aurora and Eglinton–Lawrence for that wonderful presentation. Our government has for the first time opened the door for foreign-trained nurses and foreign-trained doctors. It was a firewall for the last decades and decades, and we lost so much human intellectual capital and talent which left the province for south of the border for so many decades, including my sister. She was a foreign-trained doctor. She couldn’t get into the system; five years full-time studying, came to U of T, this building, and she couldn’t get into the system 21 years ago. So she left the country and she went to America, along with hundreds and hundreds of doctors who have left.

For the first time, our government is opening the door for foreign-trained credentials, and I have to thank and commend the minister, our Premier and the PAs.

Can the members tell this House, what is the government doing to expand our health care human resources and ensure health care workers aren’t moving out of the province and out of the hospitals?

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

Thank you very much for the question from the member for Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas. In fact, I would think the members opposite would be supporting Bill 60, because for 30 years in this province, we’ve had something like 900 independent health facilities, and what Bill 60 does is integrate those 900 independent health facilities—which, by the way, have been renewed licences for 30 years under every government of every political stripe in this province. But this piece of legislation actually integrates those formerly—after we pass Bill 60, hopefully—independent health facilities into integrated surgical community centres, which will be integrated with our health care system.

But what are we doing to make sure people are not having to worry about oversight, etc.? We’re making people post uninsured charges online and in person so a discussion can happen ahead of time; a process for responding to complaints; patients can’t be denied treatment if they don’t purchase uninsured services; and the Patient Ombudsman—

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

Further questions?

Third reading debate deemed adjourned.

Report continues in volume B.

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  • Apr/6/23 3:30:00 p.m.
  • Re: Bill 60 

Speaker, if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock at 6.

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