Thank you.

Questions?

I’m so proud to be part of the government that, since day one, when we were elected back in 2018, started the hard work that takes vision and leadership to transform our health care system. We started with The People’s Health Care Act, Bill 74, in 2019, and I don’t think there’s been a single session that we have not debated and passed a health care-related bill. Probably if we were to check the record, the opposition voted no to every single one of our health care bills. Talk is cheap and real action and real leadership need bills to be debated and put forward.

I know that the member has done some incredible work in putting forward a private member’s bill talking to seniors to recognize June as Seniors Month in Ontario. What have the seniors told us in those tables that you’ve had? What do they want to see from this government on home care?

I listened intently to the member opposite. I was glad that she was talking about some challenges that we have in Durham region and glad that the government, with seven members in this House that connect to Durham region—I’m glad we’re having conversations about that.

I will share with her something that a PSW named Cindy wrote to me. She said a number of things about what it’s like to not be appropriately compensated, the challenges. I’ve read that on the record before, but I want to highlight this part: She said, “I saw that there’s a waiting list for PSW service in home care in our area of 491 people. That is only going to get worse as we are treated as second-class health care workers.” I will note that this number is likely to have increased based on when she sent this letter.

My question is, if this is someone who is working the front lines, loves her job, wants to be respected, does not see that from this government and is concerned about the growing waiting lists for PSW service, how does this bill in front of us address that? What would this member say to folks like Cindy doing the work, doing the care and left—

I’m going to be referencing the latest report that came out from Seniors for Social Action Ontario; it just came out on October 2. I want thank Margaret Coleman, Marcia Smellie and Rick Chambers for sharing that. This is an organization that surveyed seniors about home care.

What they found was shocking, Madam Speaker. They found that, in Ontario, six times as much funding has been invested in institutional care versus home care. That’s a problem. If you want to address home care then you have to resource it. They also found out that because of this funding inequity, seniors feel that they’re being forced into institutions instead of home care due to a lack of choice. They also said that the underfunding and under-resourcing by the provincial government, as well as the clumsy hand-over responsibilities from CCACs and LHINs to the HCCSS, has proven to be very problematic.

Bill 135 does not solve these core issues. How is the government going to address the crucial need for reinvestment for a stronger home care system in Ontario?

Thank you to the member opposite for the question. The whole “why” and purpose of this bill is that we know that the demand for home care is increasing, and that’s due to our demographic changes as well as an aging population. We also have limited capacity in long-term-care homes, and the COVID-19 pandemic has really exacerbated these capacity pressures.

Now, why this bill is so important: Currently, there are 14 ministry-funded HCCSS organizations. What this bill will do is amalgamate these 14 into a single entity to gain more efficiencies.

This will be necessary in order to support the amalgamation of the 26 bargaining units currently under HCCSS and create a labour management structure that can support the transition of care coordination to the OHTs.

To your question, the member from Essex, in fact, the Ontario health at-home care coordinators are going to be playing a great part of the connection. This is going to help improve this entire system. They will work within the Ontario health teams. They’re going to work in other front-line settings. They will also work alongside the care providers, the doctors, the nurses and directly with patients while they’re in the hospital and working with the families so that they can ensure that they set up settings to facilitate a seamless transition from the hospital to the home.

I want to congratulate the member from Newmarket–Aurora for obviously having excellent mastery of the subject matter. My question for her is, in the riding of Essex sometimes we get telephone calls from people who are trying to set up home care for their family members and sometimes they find it difficult to navigate the system. So we have to help them navigate the system. My question to the member from Newmarket–Aurora is, how is this proposed legislation and Ontario Health atHome going to make it easier for people in Essex county and across the province of Ontario to access the home care services they need?

Thank you to the member opposite for the question. As I spoke to in my speech, part of what we’re doing is to ensure that we have that consistency across the province.

Right now, there has been 14 separate different home care community providers. What’s going to happen now is that this will all be connected under one central base with one back office system. That’s going to be critical to this entire process, as well as the OHTs, to ensure that home care service is provided and is consistent across this province.

Ça me fait toujours plaisir de me lever pour parler du projet de loi 135, the Convenient Care at Home Act.

I like the question my colleague just asked, because this bill will not address the lack of service. It does nothing. In fact, you heard the colleague across say, “Oh, it’s to make sure it unifies the services.” They have no idea of the lack of services First Nations—or the north compared to the south.

En français, on dit : « Prends une paye puis sors. » Venez voir, dans le Nord. Venez faire un tour. Come and take a trip. Go up north. You will see what type of service we have or First Nations have. There’s such a lack of service this bill will never address.

I’ll give you just one example. And I’m going off cue, but we had in Moose Factory, I think my colleague will know—it used to be called Billy Bayou. It was in Moose Factory. It was for young adults and family members that had autism that also had other issues. That was a place they could bring their family members to have their services. There’s no other services up north. Don’t forget, that was the only service that these families had where they could have some relief and bring their family members to that little centre. It was a small, small building. It was a small house, but there was all kinds of services they were offering to give relief to the families.

Do you know what this government did? They cut all financing. They killed it. Do you know where one of the individuals—he was a young adult. Now, he’s waiting at home to go to long-term care, and I think there’s—I can’t remember how many long-term-care beds—six or seven, very little. It takes how many years? Somebody has to die. But he’s a young adult. He shouldn’t be going to long-term care. So you cancel Billy Bayou, which was a service to the family—the little help they were getting, and you killed it.

Et pour ça, vous vous pétez les bretelles. Vous dites, hé, on va unifier les services.

Il n’y aura pas d’unification des services dans le Nord. Il n’y en aura pas, parce que les services n’existent pas. The services don’t exist. My colleague from Kiiwetinoong has said it many times in this House. I’ve said it many times in this House. So yes, if you want to talk services, come up north. You’ll get a true reality check, a real reality check, because the services don’t exist. If you leave and go up Highway 11 and go up north—ha. C’est une vraie farce. Et quand on vous entend parler, vous dites que tout va bien en Ontario. “Everything is good in Ontario.” Ça va bien. Tu sais la chanson « Ça va bien! »? Sacrifice. Réveillez-vous, puisque la réalité n’est pas là.

Il y a du monde qui est obligé—je vais te donner un autre exemple. J’en ai parlé dans la période de questions. Il y a un monsieur qui est obligé de—comment ça s’appelle? Il était à l’hôpital dans le sud de l’Ontario. Il a été obligé d’avoir un transfert. He asked for a transfer because he found out he was having cancer, and because of the lack of service we have for flying with Ornge—he knows he’s going to die, but because the service is so bad, because of the transfer just to get the treatments, he said no to the treatment. He wants to go home and die and refused the treatments that may make him live. Because the services are so terrible, he says, “I won’t take the services because I want to see my family more.”

That’s the reality. They go up to Kingston. That’s where: Kingston. They live for months in hotel rooms, just because they have diabetes. The services are not there.

So now we’re talking “convenient care at home.” Well, you don’t have the same definition of convenient care at home as what we see up north.

Le projet de loi 135—ce n’est pas compliqué—c’est une extension de la privatisation du système de santé. On va arrêter de se dire de belles affaires, là. Ils peuvent vous monter des beaux bateaux, ils peuvent vous dire toutes sortes de belles affaires de comment le système va bien; s’il va bien dans le Sud, il ne va pas bien dans le Nord.

La réalité c’est que, quand Mike Harris était au pouvoir—il était l’ancien premier ministre d’un gouvernement conservateur—il avait dit qu’on va privatiser le système, que ça va mettre un système beaucoup plus vite, beaucoup plus efficace et beaucoup moins cher. Beaucoup moins cher? Il y un autre dicton qu’on dit en français : « Allume, légume. » Tu sais ce que je veux dire? Ce n’est pas vrai. Notre système nous coûte plus cher qu’il ne nous a jamais coûté. Puis je vais vous donner un exemple.

Dans un foyer de soins de longue durée chez nous, dans ma région, une « PSW » qui est syndiquée—bonjour, Mr. Speaker. Ça va bien?

Une « PSW » qui est syndiquée se fait payer 22 piastres et 59—$22.59 for a PSW in a unionized environment. This is from a long-term care in my riding. An RN? I’ll give you, first of all, for an agency worker: $65. Cheaper? You don’t have the same definition of “cheaper” as me. It’s a lot higher.

An RPN, unionized: $22.59. Again, it’s in the same long-term care. An RPN in that same long-term care, because it’s an agency: $95. They’re using two agencies; one is $95 and one is $85, a $10 difference, for all the numbers I’m giving—but not for the unionized. But it’s cheaper? Ce n’est pas la même définition que pour moi.

RNs: on parle de 115 $ et 125 $ pour l’autre agence. So $115 and $125 for different agencies in the same place, and then RNs in the unionized environment, $34.34. Where is the definition of cheaper when it came to private care?

Now, these homes and hospitals are saying, “We’re having a hard time paying for this.” They’re having a hard time making payroll. And I heard the minister today speak in question period: “Well, we can’t eliminate them; they’re being a great service.” Yes, at a higher cost. So what does that mean when we go to convenient care? How much is that going to cost?

Let me bring you to another reality up at home: You’re talking about a shortage of manpower down south? Come up north. PSWs are being paid peanuts. They have to travel—and you have no understanding of the distance we travel. So the same PSWs—and I’m going off track—

Meegwetch to the member from Newmarket–Aurora for the presentation. I know that in the north when you travel down to a hospital and then you have to get antibiotics intravenously, sometimes, you know, some of the patients are there away from home because you have to fly in to access that service. You’re there for six weeks, eight weeks, to get the home care—because there’s no home care in the north. You have to get the IV service or the antibiotics intravenously on a daily basis and you have to be away from home. I have a hard time on how this legislation will help those people so they can be at home to get home care.

Yes. So these PSWs have to travel—let’s say there’s a patient in Smooth Rock, so she’ll go to Smooth Rock Falls, and then she has to go to Mattice, and then she has to come back to another community. But because she’s paid so much an hour, she has to cut down, because the distance is too far to do on the same day, on the same shift. Guess what happens? This patient who has been diagnosed—and they say, “No, you’re entitled to these services. You’re entitled to have two baths a week, so you’re going to have an hour of service a day.” Guess what happens to an hour a day? It’s down to 15 minutes.

I’ll talk to you more about this example. It’s right here—and this is one couple in Mattice. They used to receive one hour twice per week. Now they are only getting 15 minutes per visit. This is not enough time to even bathe the patient, let alone help with their medication and tend to their other needs. There is no time for conversation. It feels like they don’t matter and they are just there for the money. The wife is also aging and can no longer do any heavy lifting and is limited in how she can bend and move. She would be willing to pay for more care, but there’s nobody available.

Nobody available—well, do you think privatizing the system will get more services up north? I’ve got a reality: They will go where the money is, where the people are, the population. And who pays for this? It will be, again, my constituents, my colleagues’ constituents, everybody up north’s constituents. That’s the reality we’re facing.

People are coming in. They’re finding out what the work is. They leave faster than they came in. These non-profit organizations—by the way, their budget has been frozen for years—would love to pay more, would love to try to retain them, would love to give them benefits.

And let’s not forget what you guys have done: Remember Bill 124? Oh, you really helped us there. Comme ils disent en bon français : « un bon coup de pied dans le derrière », monsieur le Président. Et je pèse mes paroles là-dessus. Je n’use pas les vrais termes qu’on use en français. Il y a un terme qu’on use en français qui n’est peut-être pas trop parlementaire. Je peux vous dire que je pèse mes paroles quand je dis ça, là.

Mais la réalité est vraie : vous avez tué notre système. Vous avez tué notre système dans le Nord. Il faut de l’aide dans le Nord parce qu’on a de la misère à avoir—on peut les développer, mais ils ne viendront pas travailler chez nous. Ils vont aller travailler pour les agences à 115 $ ou à 55 $ ou 65 $, pas à 20-quelque-chose piastres de l’heure. Puis qu’ils sont obligés d’aller rencontrer un patient et de dire : « écoute, monsieur, aujourd’hui tu as une heure—je ne peux pas te donner ton bain parce que je n’ai que 15 minutes à te donner »? Pas fort.

Quand je vous entends dire qu’on va uniformiser notre système—“we’ll make this system a lot better. We will make sure that everybody gets their service”—every time, you bring all the service and want to consolidate, like you said, do you know who pays the price? Northern Ontario pays the price, because then small communities compete with bigger cities, and guess who loses? Small communities, every time. And then you go north on that, even north, you pay encore more. They pay even more.

Fait que, quand je vous entends dire que vous allez uniformiser et que vous allez privatiser et que : « non, on ne privatise pas; on veut améliorer le système »—on l’a déjà vu ce bateau-là passer. On la connaît, la toune. Et la toune, c’est que l’on sait qu’il va y avoir une perte de services encore et que ça va nous coûter plus cher. Ce n’est pas moi qui le dit, là; c’est votre système.

On a eu des fermetures. On a passé proche à des fermetures. Il y a des hôpitaux—écoute, l’hôpital de par chez nous à Smooth Rock Falls a de la misère à faire le « payroll » pour quelques mois. Trois ou quatre semaines passées, vous avez été obligés de leur faire une avance jusqu’au mois de janvier. Ça ne règle pas le problème. Au mois de janvier, le problème va être là encore. Ils ont un million-quelque-chose de déficit à cause des agences que vous avez créées, la privatisation, et vous dites : « Mautadit, c’est beau cette affaire-là. Ça marche comme dans l’eau—comme dans l’eau bénite. » Ça fonctionne tellement bien que nos hôpitaux ont de la misère à y arriver maintenant, qu’on a de la misère à faire le « payroll » et qu’on a vu, en Ontario, des urgences fermées. Puis, on dit que le système va bien—qu’il va bien, le système. Je ne sais pas sur quelle planète vous vivez ou dans quelle province vous vivez. Chez nous, ce n’est pas de même que ça marche.

J’ai un de mes collègues qui vous a parlé du Danemark. Il y a des systèmes qui existent. On n’a pas besoin de réinventer la roue, on n’a qu’à aller voir où ça fonctionne. À la place de donner des millions de dollars dans les poches de vos amis, donnez-les donc aux personnes qui en ont besoin.

Vous nous accusez de voter contre vos projets de loi—parce qu’on sait lire, nous autres aussi. We know how to read. You accuse us of not voting for those—because we know where the money is going to go, because we lived it with the Harris government. On l’a vécu. On la connaît, la toune. On le sait. We know what’s going to happen, and we’ll always vote against it, because the people who need the services—this is where the money should go, not lining the pockets of your friends and these big corporations. That’s not where it should go. And I don’t think this is what you were elected for either, but you do it anyways.

Je vais vous donner un autre exemple. I’ll give you another example. His name was Miguel. Now, it was autism, but I’ll just use that example. Their family had to move to Cochrane to get some services, even though they weren’t sure—because he was a young adult and he finished school. But the mother was burnt-out. The family was burnt-out. They were even thinking—when the family is at that point that they’re thinking of bringing their son to the emergency just because they can’t handle it anymore, the system is failing. The system is failing, and this bill will not fix that.

Convenient care? You have to realize that, back home, there is no subsidized housing; there is no housing for people like Miguel or somebody that needs help. There are hardly any services. Some of them are overbooked; it takes three years to get in. That’s the reality we live day to day. And I will repeat again, if you go up north, it’s even worse. It’s even worse. So on Highway 11, if we are having that much difficulty, I can just imagine other communities up north, how they’re struggling.

But they had to move. They sold their house, moved to Cochrane, got a job—or tried to get a job—because they were hoping to get better service for their son.

What’s wrong with this picture? What’s wrong with this picture is that we should put the money where it’s needed, not the other way around. But it seems that it falls on deaf ears.

I said that in the north, families are already struggling as our demands are high, yet our access to proper service is continuously plummeting. Just before I go on again, think about this travel grant: Because we have so much land, we’ve asked how many times just to re-evaluate, because that doesn’t even reflect the services. Do you think these people that need the services to go see their doctors and everything shouldn’t be compensated for that, because we don’t have the doctors and we don’t have the services? I’ve got a community up north of 5,000 people; 3,500 community members don’t have a family doctor. That’s our lives up north. Some communities are worse off.

But to get back to this, they cannot retain workers due to poor wages, and I’ve spoken about that. These people went through some hard times during COVID. PSWs went through some hard times. They were there. They were giving services to the people who needed them. And yet, we didn’t want to move on Bill 124, even though we know it’s unconstitutional. Ce n’est pas constitutionnel. On sait que le projet de loi 124 est anticonstitutionnel, mais on continue à dépenser l’argent des contribuables. Pourquoi, eux autres? « Parce qu’on est mieux que toutes les autres décisions qui sont prises à la cour suprême de l’Ontario. On a eu des décisions de la Cour suprême, mais nous autres, on est mieux, on connaît mieux, on sait mieux. On est un gouvernement pour le monde »—for the people. Bill 124 is not for the people. Ce n’est pas quand tu gèles leurs salaires—dans les temps les plus difficiles, quand on passait une pandémie, qu’on vient geler leurs salaires.

Lack of replacement workers in the north: Families have been completely skipped for their weekly home visit as agencies could not find a replacement when a worker called in sick or could not make it on time. Can you imagine only getting one, two baths per week, and your worker does not show up? That means no bath for the entire week. I don’t know what you feel, but how would you feel if you could not get your bath? Comment vous vous sentiriez, vous autres? Un à deux bains par semaine, ce n’est pas gros, là. Mais ça, c’est une réalité continuelle. J’en ai parlé en Chambre drette dans mes débuts quand j’ai été élu. Pour une, ça faisait un mois qu’elle n’avait pas eu un bain à cause du manque de service. Se faire laver à la mitaine, comme qu’on dit en français—washing with a handcloth is not a bath.

Then, we’re saying, “No, we’re going to unify the system. It works so good there right now.” We’re hearing this government speak: “Everything is good.” Not back home. I’m not inventing these things; these are my constituents’ stories. You think unifying is going to fix this? It won’t, because too much money is going—exactly what my colleague has spoken to—to put more money in these big, big corporations, your friends. And that’s okay? It’s not okay. This is why we keep voting against your bills—

They’re measured by hours.

I thank your aunt in northern Ontario for her services, because I think we have to thank her for the work she has done. But tell me, if you want to have success, why can’t we pay the PSWs right now that we have that are unionized? Instead of paying these agencies $55 or $65 an hour, why don’t we pay these PSWs the same rate? Because it seems to be okay from your party. And I heard the minister today say, “No, it’s okay. We need them.” So why don’t you pay these instead? Remove Bill 124 and pay these PSWs the rate that you’re paying right now, because it seems to be okay, fine with your government, but yet you’re fighting this all the way, even though it’s « anticonstitutionnel »—I always have difficulty saying that word in English. But why don’t you do that?

This is why we vote against a bill like this. People say, “Well, what’s wrong with this bill?” When you start also explaining what’s wrong with this bill, they see it, because it’s opening more to privatization, and we know up north how privatization hurt us.

I gave you the numbers. When we talk in my constituency about the price we’re paying for agencies, and hospitals almost closing because they can’t make payroll—we need our hospitals, because we have very few hospitals up north and we have distances to travel, not to mention the highways we have to go through and drive through in the winter, and accidents. The list goes on.

But when you explain it to them, they understand, because they live it on a daily basis. So yes, we’ll vote against bills that are not addressing the problem, because that’s my job: to represent my constituents.

Merci, madame la Présidente, et merci au député de votre discours.

M^me Deborah Simon, qui est la directrice générale de l’Association ontarienne de soutien communautaire, a dit : « Les soins à domicile et en milieu communautaire jouent un rôle essentiel dans l’avenir d’un solide système de santé ontarien. Les modifications législatives qui renforcent ce service vital seront importantes pour favoriser les soins au bénéficiaire dans un système de santé intégré. »

Alors, je dois vous poser la question, monsieur le député : est-ce que nous pouvons compter sur votre soutien de l’Association ontarienne de soutien communautaire et votre soutien de ce projet de loi?

Écoute, j’apprécie ta question en français, premièrement, mais à nulle part dans ce projet de loi est-ce que ça parle des services en français non plus. Ce qu’on sait dans la province de l’Ontario : il y a une grosse pénurie de services en français. Je suis certain que tu ne peux pas le dénier parce qu’on le vit constamment. On n’a qu’à penser à, encore, que vous venez d’annoncer notre université que vous avez cancellée—je ne comprends pas la justification.

Mais quand ça vient à des services de santé, un des gros dossiers de l’AFO, madame la Présidente, c’est le manque de services en santé francophones. En étant critique francophone, puis qu’on voit qu’ils n’adressent pas ces services en français dans un projet de loi qui dit « Convenient Care at Home »—what about the French part of it? Because right now, in this bill, it doesn’t address nothing about services in French, which are lacking a lot in Ontario.

I want to thank my colleague for a very impassioned speech about home care and about the disparity of services that northern Ontario is experiencing. You can always tell when he’s really passionate, because his voice goes up three or four octaves, and it makes it entertaining for some of us.

However, the question on this voting thing—I’m going to go there—because once again, the government has brought forward a piece of legislation which does not solve the problem. They always say to us, “Why are you not voting with us?” We’re going to vote against legislation which does not address the needs of the people of this province, and that includes northern Ontario, to my colleague.

So when my colleague finds out that seniors who are not getting dignity in home care are now looking to medical assistance in dying—they’re looking to the MAID system, because they have no dignity—what can he tell the House about the level of desperation, based on this bill?

I listened intently to the member’s statement. I do understand the geography of northern Ontario. My aunt was actually a PSW in northern Ontario. She has now since retired. I do thank all the PSWs for their work out there. It’s not an easy job, and we appreciate when they look after our loved ones.

Sometimes travelling in southern Ontario is even more difficult than travelling in northern Ontario, so you have to think of PSWs in the downtown area trying to get around. As we know, sometimes it takes us a long time to get from here to the Gardiner. But in the past, opposition, you really have voted against our government’s proposals to make health care delivery quicker, more reliable for our constituents. It doesn’t matter where you live.

I’m just wondering if the member can explain why your party thinks it’s better that their constituents should have to wait to access health care that they need.

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We’re now under questions and responses.

Questions?

Questions?