Love that.

Where’s Paul?

Point of order: the member from Kitchener–Conestoga.

Interjections.

Point of order.

Point of order: the member from Peterborough–Kawartha.

I would like to thank the member from Oshawa for her presentation and making it through.

It seems to me, as we look at Bill 153, this is the third time in fewer than two years that the government has made changes to the Ontario Underground Infrastructure Notification System Act. I believe there were also earlier changes made through Bill 23, as well as other pieces of legislation.

Did the government not consult properly on these earlier changes, and is that a reason that this is yet another example of sort of backpedalling to clean up?

Thank you to all of my colleagues for the cough drops. I don’t think I’m sick; we’ll find out tomorrow.

Speaker, as we’re talking about building infrastructure safely, I wanted to be able to share something from a submission that was made by the Professional Engineers Government of Ontario. These are the folks who are professional engineers who work in different government ministries. PEGO—the Professional Engineers Government of Ontario—members deliver some of the largest infrastructure projects in the province. They write standards, codes and regulations. They approve major industrial projects and enforce and regulate environmental projects and operations. This includes the provincial highway network, the Ontario building code, land surveying, food safety, workplace safety, safe drinking water—speaking of safe drinking water, thank you, Paras—and clean air.

Speaker, as Ontario grows, its infrastructure and public service needs are growing too, and as we’re building our roads and our clean water systems and infrastructure, we want to know that people can rely on them. We want to make sure engineers have eyes on the projects and are involved in the planning.

To my earlier comment: Metrolinx doesn’t have any engineers on staff. I forget how many executives they’ve got and whatnot, but they don’t have engineers. They contract those out.

The Professional Engineers Government of Ontario work across government ministries to make sure that the government does things well and that we have infrastructure, we have projects that somebody who knows what the metrics should be and knows what the safety requirements are—that they have been involved. For example, I don’t think there are any who work in the Ministry of Energy; somebody can correct me, but that’s my understanding. That’s a little scary. But they are much less expensive than contracting out to the private sector. For every dollar that’s spent on the professional engineers in the government, we spend more than $10 on the private sector. About 30 years ago, they did about 40% of the engineering work in Ontario; now, based on the figures, it looks like less than 5%. That means that we—you as a government, but we as a province—are now contracting out and not relying on in-house, which surprises me. I would think the government would want information, knowledge and wisdom to be in-house. It means that private sector engineers are often compensated double the rate of the engineers who work in the government of Ontario. They charge 200% to 300% more for the same work of this government.

This government is always looking for ways to be more efficient, but let’s also look at that efficiency coming with safety. If you compare that work, why on earth wouldn’t you want that engineering expertise, the industry expertise, to be in-house? Maybe the government would have less opportunities to repeal all of their good ideas if they actually did their due diligence.

Anyway, as I am looking at the clock, I will say I am finally coming to the end of this one-hour lead, which is the second one-hour speech on locates I have given as the very proud and enthusiastic critic for infrastructure, transportation and highways.

I think that the take-away from this and all legislation that has to do with building infrastructure is that we want it done well. Yes, people want it done quickly and they want it done predictably. They want a start date and an end date that they can count on. The government has a lot of improving to do in that regard. But where this piece of legislation is concerned, I will say it is it a novel thing to be able to stand in this House and say that I hear there was a collaborative process and consultation went well, that industry and community stakeholders were in agreement with what is presented in this bill. That sounds like a new way—kind of an old-fashioned way—of governing, and I would like to see more pieces of legislation that actually went through a process and out the other side.

Speaker, I’m a little bit early, but I am glad to be finished my hour and to again have my voice on the record.

As I have said, this is a bill that came forward initially—so, many moons ago, the private members’ bill that was a collaborative effort between the member from Sarnia–Lambton and the former member from Hamilton East–Stoney Creek. There is nothing contentious in this bill; there wasn’t in that private members’ bill.

When you talk about the northern call centre—I just want to flag for the minister the comments from the member from Nickel Belt and others who have highlighted the challenges of northern community members and One Call, or getting those locates inside a timely way. That continues to be on a case-by-case basis. There are still improvements to be made, but that’s outside of this bill.

Everything I’ve heard from folks, with the few exceptions I highlighted, seems supportable. We’ll have to wait and see.

I’m telling you that not to be able to defend something the government is doing, but to be able to say to the government, “Look what happens when you learn from people who do the work. You get a piece of legislation that we don’t crumple up and throw back at you and that you won’t have to repeal.” Anyway, they’re lessons for everyone.

Point of order.

Thank you to the member from Oshawa. I know that she struggled through her remarks because she was coughing and had a sore throat. That happens from time to time, especially when you have an hour-long leadoff—well done to get through that.

I just want to point out to the member opposite, there were a few opportunities there where I saw—you talked about One Call. Obviously, that was led by the member from Sarnia–Lambton and has been respected, so it is a requirement to deal with One Call.

You talked a little bit about Ontario Place, and I’ve been sitting here listening for the last year and a half to some of the things that I feel are very untrue about that site. I know the Minister of Infrastructure is working very diligently with Infrastructure Ontario in order to make sure that there’s value for dollars and it is a place for all Ontarians and Canadians, but also that we fulfill our duties on there.

Finally, we talked about this airspace and the MZO which never actually really occurred. So I think there have been a number of areas—and I don’t know how this misinformation has gotten through so that it would make it through to a speech on the floor of the assembly, but I would like to just point out to the member that she may want to correct—

Thank you to all the members in this House who have contributed to the debate on this bill. I would like to thank the member from Oshawa for her comments. One thing I really enjoy is seeing both sides of the House work together.

I’m very pleased to rise today to in support of Bill 153, the Building Infrastructure Safely Act, 2023. I know many members in this House have indicated their support, and we look forward to hearing from them as well.

I want to second the minister in acknowledging all parties involved in this extensive consultation held by the Ministry of Public and Business Service Delivery, Ontario One Call and the Ministry of Energy to bring Bill 153 to the point it is today.

As part of the development of this bill, many stakeholders, including underground infrastructure owners and operators, excavators and developers, were engaged. With the hard work and dedication of public and business service delivery officials and One Call staff, we were able to craft the bill and lead stakeholder consultations throughout. These consultations emphasized the need to modernize Ontario’s locate delivery framework as well as invest in the future. They underlined how important it is for us to improve locate delivery service and find a balance that minimizes financial impacts and burdens on industry while enhancing safety, which is key for workers and the overall public.

The minister shared in detail about the proposed legislation and its many measures: prohibiting owners and operators of underground infrastructure from charging to provide locates and aligning Ontario One Call powers and responsibilities with those of other administrative authorities.

I would like to take some time to review a couple of the ways this bill is vital to our communities and to Ontario’s overall growth. When the government’s fall economic statement came out in November last year, I believe its title said it all: Building a Strong Ontario Together. That’s our number one goal. As our Minister of Finance said at the time, we must keep investing to build the critical infrastructure to support growing communities across Ontario. Ontario needs new infrastructure, from affordable housing to new public transportation, roads and broadband Internet that reaches every corner of our wonderful province.

The Minister of Finance also laid out our government’s plans for the new Ontario Infrastructure Bank, which will help to drive investment participation so that we can deliver more infrastructure faster. This starts priority areas such as long-term-care homes, affordable housing and infrastructure in the municipal, community, energy and transportation sectors. We owe it to the people of Ontario today and we owe it to our future generations to build this critical infrastructure, to get it done.

As the Minister of Public and Business Service Delivery said earlier today, Ontario’s population is growing by half a million people a year, and we’re creating hundreds of thousands of new jobs. That’s wonderful news, but it’s no news that to support all that growth, we need more housing and we need vital infrastructure like transit, roads, schools and high-speed Internet.

The road ahead is clear: We must find new ways to build that essential infrastructure while maintaining public safety. Building Ontario means putting investments and infrastructure in place to strengthen local economies and communities across the province now and in the future. That is why Ontario has made a historical commitment of $185 billion over the next 10 years.

Since last year and continuing in 2024, $20.7 billion has been put toward the most ambitious capital plan in Ontario’s history to build highways, roads, transit, hospitals, long-term-care homes, schools, child care spaces, broadband and other critical infrastructure, so it’s touching everything.

Some of you may be wondering how does the Building Infrastructure Safely Act, 2024, fit into the larger picture. The answer is right under your feet. Any time we break ground for a house or a highway or any time we dig, from a small-scale operation like planting a tree to something major like a subway tunnel, we must first identify what infrastructure is buried there. That includes natural gas, high-voltage electrical cables, water, sewer and telecommunications. They’re all right there, right beneath us. And if we want to build infrastructure to meet the needs of our growing population, we need to put in the work. We need to work smart and, most of all, we need to work safe. As a provincial government, that means implementing policies that foster growth sustainably and, most importantly, safely. We must lead and we must continue to work closely with municipalities, private sector partners and community stakeholders.

Speaker, this brings us to why all Ontarians are required to obtain locates before they start to dig on projects of any size. You think about it: A broadband line is only a foot under the ground. You cut that line, you could shut down a whole neighbourhood for a week.

Ontario One Call is an administrative authority. It is responsible for coordinating requests from excavators to locate underground infrastructure. One Call plays a vital role in enhancing overall industry performance and ensuring public safety on excavation projects. They play a vital role in raising awareness about responsibilities under the act, working collaboratively to meet a shared goal of public safety and compliance with the law.

One Call’s main objective is to promote safe digging practices and increase the efficiency, timeliness and coordination of locate delivery to ensure public safety for all.

If passed, Bill 153 would help to improve the system for identifying the location of underground infrastructure, or “locates,” and support the vital infrastructure development that Ontario needs so dearly. Most importantly, these changes would maintain Ontario’s strictest safety standards, because safety is our number one goal.

Before shovels can go into the ground, we need to make sure that critical safety steps are taken. Locating underground infrastructure helps prevent damage to our entire network of underground infrastructure and reduces the risk to public safety.

I remember, and this is a long time ago, when I was a kid, there was a house at the end of the street. An excavator came in and was digging in the front of that house. It hit a gas line, and about 15 minutes later, that house was no longer there. I’ve always remembered that my whole life. Thank God we have One Call today.

Ontario workers need to be assured that they are as protected as they can be when they are out there building, anywhere, working in our great province. These hard-working and dedicated skilled trade workers put their lives and livelihoods on the line every time they go on that job to help make sure we have roads, sewers, homes and telecommunications. We owe it to them to create work environments that are as safe as possible. And that’s why providing locate services at no cost is so important.

By helping to keep these costs down for construction projects, it removes a potential cost barrier to people complying with the public safety requirement to call or click before they dig. We simply do not want there to be any financial disincentives to safety. Safety is paramount. By prohibiting owners and operators of underground infrastructure from charging fees for providing locates, we would minimize public safety risks that would happen and align with long-standing industry practices in Canada and the United States by enshrining it into law.

Speaker, our government knows how much depends on solid infrastructure. The economy growth for the entire province relies on it by allowing businesses to operate and create jobs, connecting our communities and promoting the exchange of goods and services. Well-developed infrastructure reduces the effects of geographical distances and helps our fellow citizens access employment, health care and education that we all need to prosper in this province. This legislation would help usher in a safer, more efficient, cost-effective approach to building critical infrastructure in our great province.

This is our government’s forward-looking agenda to meet the challenges of tomorrow as we look to build capacity for Ontario to grow and succeed for generations to come. Many of my colleagues have said this before, and I will reiterate it again: This bill is part of a pledge that we have made to the people of Ontario to make our province the best place to work, live and play. And that means ensuring the continued success of Ontario One Call and the vital roles it performs so we can all benefit from sustainable, safe infrastructure development today and tomorrow.

I strongly urge all members of the House to support this bill and I look forward to continued discussion on how we can build a stronger Ontario together.

I’ll just touch on the broadband issue since it has been brought up. We’ve had over a dozen projects in and around Waterloo region that have actually been funded and come forward and have been approved, and many have been completed. So it is really great, I think, when we talk about all members in this House wanting to see broadband expanded affordably across the province for everyone—it’s really great to see that there are many of those projects that have moved forward.

I did, in the spirit of bipartisanship—and it looks like we’re having a good, sort of healthy debate today. Being from North Bay, some will say it’s northern Ontario; some will say maybe it’s not. If the MPP from Mushkegowuk–James Bay was here, he’d be razzing me right now about it—oh, sorry; I can’t say that. I didn’t mean it in a negative way. Apologies, table.

But what do you see as some of the barriers? If you’re the critic for this file, what do you see as some of the things that we can work on as government, without the political rhetoric, to bring better service, in particular with the locates in northern Ontario?

I want to congratulate my very knowledgeable colleague the member for Oshawa for walking us through the legislation that’s before us today, the Building Infrastructure Safely Act. She made some comments regarding the locate requests that are affected by this legislation, and those locate requests are other than dedicated locator requests that are related to designated broadband projects. She made some comments about this government’s track record on implementing broadband throughout Ontario.

I wondered if she wanted to elaborate a little bit more on the government’s progress in achieving its broadband goals.

Thank you to the member.

The member for Oshawa.

I’ll caution the member in her use of “misinformation.”

I’m pretty sure she’s not allowed to suggest that I am doing misinformation, but, Speaker, if you’re going to let her, then I guess I will.

A few things: The Ontario Place stuff—

However, what the member suggested was misinformation that came to the floor—that story, “Ford Government Forced to Fix Rushed Zoning Order that Put Tower on Flight Path.” I’m referring to a Global News piece posted on November 6, 2023. It explained the whole thing about the rushed process, what happened. It’s a three-pager. So if it’s misinformation, please let Isaac Callan and Colin D’Mello know.

Everybody in here is rooting for broadband for everyone. So the fact that we have seen this pattern of underspending—why? How come?

I think not specific to this bill but to broadband generally: When you’re working with municipalities or regions that have suggestions, sometimes government can be almost too rigid. If they’re looking for applications on a particular funding thing, then innovative ideas might not fit and then we miss an opportunity. I have examples of that that I’m hearing from communities about ways to make things better. We need to make sure that those ideas can move forward.

On a construction site or any type of operation, there’s going to be one company coordinating that operation, and it’s up to them to make sure that everybody involved, that they’re going to be using for that operation, is involved and the service can be provided safely.

The whole secret behind this is that it speeds things up in a safe manner, and that’s what it’s all about.

I want to thank the parliamentary assistant for his remarks. I spent a lot of time on the phone with Ontario One Call, and truly, it being brought into force in Ontario is actually a tremendous positive given how difficult it was to understand what is actually underground—for a common person to know whether they have wires, a pipeline. There are all kinds of materials down there.

Speaker, I wanted to ask, given that both our economy and our population continue to see unprecedented growth, not just of our population, but really of the kind of work that is needed, year after year—and we really need to accommodate our modern economy. It’s important to land some of the industry that we want to attract to Ontario, and we want to see increased productivity. This whole legislation was going to do that, and we have a goal to build 1.5 million new homes.

So I wanted to ask the question of how this legislation can help facilitate construction in the province of Ontario and support builders as they work alongside us to build a strong and prosperous province.

Questions?

Thank you to the member opposite for his debate portion. I expected it to go another 10 minutes, but I guess they’re going to be doing short debates for the rest of the afternoon.

There definitely have been concerns, and I see that this bill removes—will not charge for certain locate requests, but they also won’t be required to pay compensation for the missed deadlines.

When a build is happening, as you can imagine, there are several contractors coming in from several different places, and the need to coordinate all of those contractors becomes difficult. So if we have a company that doesn’t show up to do the locates that are necessary, what is the penalty to them for not showing up and to not keep that appointment?

Could the member speak to why something like that isn’t in this legislation, to protect the builders in these circumstances?

I’d like to thank the member from Cambridge for his remarks. Specifically, I like how you brought into your speech your own incident that you witnessed or you knew was a big danger. With that being the case, we know that we need to ensure public safety and that our people remain safe at all times.

I wanted to talk about the businesses and the industries that will greatly benefit from this proposed change, like construction firms, telecommunications providers, locators, excavators. My question is, can the member please tell us the full impact of this legislation? How will it impact Ontarians, and what are the major benefits that it will provide?