An Hon. Senator: Question.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Are senators ready for the question?

Senator Cardozo: Yes.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do we have people who have questions for Senator Downe? We have four minutes.

[Translation]

Senator Miville-Dechêne: Would you take a question, Senator Downe?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Would Senator Cardozo be kind enough to take a question?

Senator Simons: Fire away.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is there an agreement on a bell? One-hour bell. The vote will occur at 4:45 p.m. Call in the senators.

Motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Downe negatived on the following division:

Some Hon. Senators: Question.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Downe, your time for debate is over. There are three more senators who wish to question you. Are you requesting five more minutes?

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That, when the Senate next adjourns after the adoption of this motion, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, February 7, 2023, at 2 p.m.

Senator Downe: Thank you. If my amendment passes, we really don’t have to trust the CRTC because there’s a penalty in it. There would be a $2 million fine for the CBC, payable to a local library in the region, for every day they cancel the service in direct violation of the Broadcasting Act.

What we found, as I stated earlier — I won’t repeat it — is that all the rules were followed, but there was no enforcement. This brings in a penalty and enforcement.

Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Would Senator Downe take another question?

I will be quick. In paragraph (b) of your amendment, you propose to make public the salary of a certain number of people in comparison with the salary of a senator and not that of an MP. If you want the amendment to be accepted by the other place, perhaps you should include the salary of MPs as well.

My question is this. Does this not constitute a violation of privacy under the Privacy Act?

[English]

Senator Simons: Is it the most appropriate place? I would have to question that. I mean, it’s a very fine, granular thing to put in a regulatory framework that is supposed to be broad, general application. I don’t think the place to have this discussion needs to be in legislation. It can be clearly given as a ministerial directive or policy. Frankly, it’s something that the board of the CBC should be pressured to do. To put the micromanagement of the CBC’s pay salary into a broad regulatory framework that may have to last us for another 20 or 30 years is the wrong place for the right message.

Senator Cardozo: Thank you, senator, for your question. I would have felt ignored had you not asked a question of me, so I thank you very much.

Indeed, the question you raise is important. I am not using the word “narrowcasting.” I’m using the word “broadcasting.” I think what this bill does is provide more revenue for the creation of Quebec content — of Canadian content — to go across the world. I think this bill is doing exactly what you’d like to see it doing. Certainly, it will provide more revenue that comes from all Canadians for Canadian content and for Quebec content as we want more Canada to go across the world.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Rob “Scratch” Mitchell, former lieutenant-colonel in the RCAF and former Snowbirds team lead. He is the guest of the Honourable Senator Batters.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Thank you, Senator Downe, for this important amendment that you’re putting forward. We’ve been asked, with Bill C-11, on countless occasions by the government and others to trust the CRTC going forward in order to set reasonable standards and a framework for Bill C-11. We see now a very blatant example of how the CRTC neglects to enforce licensing obligations on a particular broadcaster.

The question I have for you is the following: Can we have faith, when they do not impose the obligations already — for example, they’ve never fined the CBC when it’s well within their right to do so when they don’t respect licensing; the CBC has never had public hearings in order to justify the reduction of services — can we trust the CRTC to ultimately do the job they’ve been given to do?

Senator Downe: Well, if they pull this stunt again, it would be great for the local libraries that would be flooded with money. That may be a better expenditure than the CBC broadcasting some of their current shows. This is a way of trying to put some pressure on them. If they were off for another seven days again, that would be $14 million.

I want to go back to the point. At the beginning of the pandemic, all Canadians were desperate for information, and we were counting on the CBC. We were counting on the only locally produced TV news, and they weren’t there. It’s totally unacceptable what happened. Hopefully, this amendment will prevent that from ever happening again.

[Translation]

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dawson, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bovey, for the third reading of Bill C-11, An Act to amend the Broadcasting Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended.

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.