Senator Downe: Thank you. If my amendment passes, we really don’t have to trust the CRTC because there’s a penalty in it. There would be a $2 million fine for the CBC, payable to a local library in the region, for every day they cancel the service in direct violation of the Broadcasting Act.

What we found, as I stated earlier — I won’t repeat it — is that all the rules were followed, but there was no enforcement. This brings in a penalty and enforcement.

Senator Simons: Is it the most appropriate place? I would have to question that. I mean, it’s a very fine, granular thing to put in a regulatory framework that is supposed to be broad, general application. I don’t think the place to have this discussion needs to be in legislation. It can be clearly given as a ministerial directive or policy. Frankly, it’s something that the board of the CBC should be pressured to do. To put the micromanagement of the CBC’s pay salary into a broad regulatory framework that may have to last us for another 20 or 30 years is the wrong place for the right message.

Senator Downe: Well, if they pull this stunt again, it would be great for the local libraries that would be flooded with money. That may be a better expenditure than the CBC broadcasting some of their current shows. This is a way of trying to put some pressure on them. If they were off for another seven days again, that would be $14 million.

I want to go back to the point. At the beginning of the pandemic, all Canadians were desperate for information, and we were counting on the CBC. We were counting on the only locally produced TV news, and they weren’t there. It’s totally unacceptable what happened. Hopefully, this amendment will prevent that from ever happening again.

[Translation]

Senator Downe: Actually, no, because as you know, senator, under the Privacy Act, anyone can waive the restrictions. The reason for this is we should not ask others for what we’re not prepared to do ourselves. In this case, our salaries are all disclosed, so it would be whatever the Senate salary is and above that for the CBC employees. It’s not a violation of the Privacy Act because we have all kinds of salaries released publicly across the government.

There’s a clear section in the Privacy Act where the person can waive. I can ask an ambassador, “Who did you have for lunch in Berlin last week?” They can say, “Under the Privacy Act, we are not disclosing,” but they can also waive that and disclose it. That’s the same here.

Senator Downe: You’re aware that the Transport Committee recommended this very course of action nine years ago. Senator Dawson was the chair of that committee. Senators at the time recommended this proposal. We are, in effect, doing what the Senate recommended, and for some reason you’re opposed to it. I’m not clear why. I won’t get into the other comments about CBC and Charlottetown being punished and so on. I reject the suggestion, but we don’t have time to carry on.

Senator Downe: Actually, I did forget that. I mentioned in my speech, it was the local TV news. Colleagues, the only locally produced TV news in the province of Prince Edward Island is CBC. CBC cancelled that news, so we were deprived of the TV news. Radio continued as well. Had they cancelled the news in Vancouver, would anybody have noticed? They’re probably fourth or fifth ranked. Had they cancelled the local CBC news in Toronto, would anybody have noticed? No, because there are all kinds of options — Global, CTV, it goes on. In P.E.I., the ratings are 90% plus because there’s no competition. It’s the only news service available.

The significance of it was at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, nobody knew what to do. You bought a green pepper at the grocery store; did you have to put it in your microwave or did you have to scrub it with a hose? How was the disease transmitted? People were desperate for news to protect themselves. CBC TV, at the beginning, when we needed them the most, they left. Why did they leave? Not because the local journalists were concerned about catching COVID. They were quite prepared to do what others did with hockey sticks and microphones. They were cancelled because CBC Toronto cancelled them. The only province in Canada with one newscast — the local TV newscast — was cancelled. Totally unacceptable — at the beginning of a crisis, they abandoned us totally.

What my amendment is trying to do, and what Senator Francis, obviously, understands as well, and what we heard from many Islanders, is that this cannot be repeated when there’s another crisis.

I had the CBC president sitting in my office recently. I mentioned the cancellation. She said, “Oh, it was a disruption. It came back after a few days.” It came back after a few days because the premier and everyone else were in an uproar about what the heck was going on.

That’s the problem. The $2 million a day is a bare minimum because what I found out when I checked into this is the CRTC gives a licence to the CBC. The CBC appears before the CRTC and says, “We will do the following things.” The CRTC may say, “We want you to do this,” and so on, and the licence is offered. None of that is valid because the CBC cannot have their licence cancelled unless they ask the CRTC to cancel it. So there’s no enforcement mechanism. The CRTC wrote back after three or four letters and basically said, “We give the licence, but we can’t do anything to enforce the rules.”

According to the Broadcasting Act, the CBC had to have public hearings and they guaranteed a minimum broadcasting time in P.E.I. They had no public hearings; they didn’t do the minimum broadcasting. They just, on a whim, cancelled the service, leaving the province — as I said in my speech, a high percentage of seniors, some of the worst internet connections — and you had to hope something was on the radio.

Senator Downe: I’m surprised actually, senator, at some of your comments. We’re talking about the Broadcasting Act. As Senator Dawson correctly pointed out, it hasn’t been before Parliament in decades. If you’re not doing compensation in the Broadcasting Act for the CBC, I’m not sure where you would do it. It is the most appropriate place. Where would you do it if it’s not the Broadcasting Act that is before us today?

Senator Housakos: Senator Simons, I’m a little confused. You’re either for transparency or you’re not. The problem we have had over many decades is that the CBC, when it comes to dealing with certain aspects, is taken away from the realm of good governance and the board, and they are managed directly by the minister’s office and whoever the CEO is, who has been appointed by the minister’s office to begin with. The Broadcasting Act is the exact place to protect taxpayers’ money.

What would be the hesitation, if we believe in transparency, putting it crystal clear in this revamped, modern and renewed Broadcasting Act to make sure that the CBC — which is funded completely by taxpayers’ money — will be transparent like every other government agency?