Hon. Leo Housakos: Therefore, honourable senators, in amendment, I move:

That Bill C-11, as amended, be not now read a third time, but that it be further amended,

(a) in clause 3 (as amended by the decision of the Senate on December 14, 2022), on page 8, by replacing line 31 with the following:

(b) in clause 10 (as amended by the decision of the Senate on December 14, 2022), on page 14, by replacing lines 27 to 30 with the following:

“services for selection by the public;”.

Honourable senators, I thank you for your consideration.

Hon. Donna Dasko: Thank you, senator, for your very thorough speech. I wanted to remind you that Bill C-11 already includes an exclusion with respect to the use of algorithms. Whatever it is that the chair, now the former chair — whatever it is he may have said — and he did, as you quoted correctly, make these statements to our committee — you will know that clause 9.1(8) actually states:

The Commission shall not make an order under paragraph (1)‍(e) —

— that is the one you are suggesting be changed —

 — that would require the use of a specific computer algorithm or source code.

So, in fact, the bill, as it is, says that no algorithm manipulation will be allowed under orders of the CRTC.

I think your concern about algorithms is a little bit misplaced because, in fact, the CRTC cannot make a ruling on algorithms.

Senator Dasko: Senator, as you know, there are many other ways that can be used to promote and showcase Canadian content. That is a topic that came up a great many times at our committee. The platforms can use various kinds of promotion, they can use advertising, they can use categories of presentation, they can use pop-ups — they have all kinds of other methods to showcase Canadian content.

When you take those opportunities, those possibilities, along with what I just read — which is very clear that algorithms cannot be ordered to be manipulated — and when you put these possibilities together, you actually have a very good picture of how discoverability can be carried out by the platforms. It seems to me to be very reasonable and would seem to address your concerns. Thank you.

Senator Housakos: Yes, I truly believe that culture is a commodity like any other. It is important to get the best products out there, the best artists and the best people in the field, people who can attract more interest. That will transform the whole thing into a money-maker. Our goals are aligned. I want to protect francophone Quebec culture. I am proud to be a Quebecer, and I am very proud of the importance of promoting Quebec culture, but our approach is very different.

You’re obsessed with protectionism when you try to restrict the promotion of French culture to a limited market that has only a few million francophones in Quebec and Canada. I want to use the platform we have before us and I’m fighting for all Quebecers who call me every day, who send emails and who give me the courage to continue my fight in this place, on their behalf, because for the past few years, thanks to this platform, they’ve had the opportunity to export their French culture to hundreds of millions of francophones around the world.

You now seem convinced that protectionism, a closed approach that limits opportunities for these people and forces them to work in a smaller market, is the best option for them rather than making the entire francophone world available to them. I am fighting for these people. I don’t understand why you’re not as enthusiastic as I am about the idea of maintaining and protecting the wealth that has developed over the past 15 to 20 years thanks to various international platforms.

[English]

Senator Housakos: Thank you, senator, for your question. Actually, I see two questions in there.

The algorithmic process that is used by platforms right now is organic. It is not controlled by any one person; it is controlled by you and me. If we have a phone or an iPad and are on these platforms, we determine what is prioritized.

These platforms are in the business of volume. They give the consumer what the consumer wants. That is what I’m fighting for. All I’m simply saying is it is not incumbent upon you or I to determine what should or should not be censored.

I have faith in the Canadian public. I do not believe that most Canadians are misogynistic, racist or Islamophobic. I believe that, at the end of the day, they will make the right choices.

When we see things on the web that are deplorable, all of us, as Canadians, call it out. When we see something that we want to really push forward, we will get up and push it forward without any hindrance or determination by any minister or politician. I don’t care if it is a Conservative, a Liberal or a Communist for that matter.

On your second question, the truth of the matter is that in the last decade — and I touched upon it in my speech, as did Senator Plett — we are talking, in 2021, $5 billion of investment in the arts and culture sector. I know you have many years of experience at the CRTC in arts and culture. You name me what year the Canadian government was able to inject into Canada $5 billion in arts and culture.

We keep putting $1.4 billion into the CBC and no one watches it, and God knows we’re not consulted about it. The ratings keep going down. Everyone is going to streaming and to all of these platforms that we are trying to demonize, but these platforms have put more investment into Canadian arts and culture than ever before.

As I said it in my speech — and we saw it in the testimony — there is a plethora, not a shortage, right now of Canadian artists working today making films and documentaries, and producing songs, shows and art like never before. Let’s unleash that Canadian culture. We’re punching above our weight around the world. Let’s continue to give more of Canada to the world instead of giving it less by closing our borders.

Hon. Paula Simons: I will be very quick, as I stand between you and your dinner.

Senator Housakos raises a perfectly valid point, and I agree with him that there is far too much leeway in this bill to allow for algorithmic manipulation and the curation of what Canadians see. My complaint about this amendment, however, is that I think it does nothing to address that concern.

If we look at the first clause that Senator Housakos intends to amend, he is changing the word “ensure” to “allow” so that the clause will say to “allow the discoverability of Canadian programming . . . ”, French and English “. . . in an equitable proportion, . . .”. I don’t see how that addresses the issue of algorithms whatsoever.

The second question has to do with the clause on page 14, which speaks to the presentation of programming. Senator Housakos’ amendment would simply cut off the sentence halfway, allowing for a sentence phrase that says, “the presentation of programs and programming services for selection by the public . . .”, leaving us with a sentence fragment that makes no sense and does not speak in any way to the concern I have about algorithmic rigging.

While I absolutely share Senator Housakos’ concerns — they are well founded and not out of proportion — I do not feel that this amendment does anything to address those very real concerns. I, with regret, will not be supporting it.

The Hon. the Speaker: Are senators ready for the question?

Senator Tannas: As Mr. Menzies was speaking, I was reminded of this old saying that I heard: “There is no problem that the government can’t make more complicated.” It also comes as a bit of a Canadian thing. There are many times when we can’t seem to go straight at things without complicating it a little bit in our rush to be nice, to be thorough, to be complete, to be fair or to make sure we don’t miss something.

The point of this bill — based on what we were told, and what I was told in the briefing from the government — was to make sure that the streaming services begin paying significant amounts of money into the funds to support artists across the country, as cable companies and other more traditional media fade away.

The majority of the concerns that I’ve heard, both at committee and in this chamber, are around potential issues that are outside that stated reason for the bill. The questions are as follows: Will small, specialized streaming services withdraw from Canada? Will user-generated content, producers and creators face interference? Will algorithms be co-opted by government to force us to somehow consume artistic product that is not of our choosing?

We received assurances — at committee from government witnesses, and in this chamber from senators — that our worries are not valid. We have actually inserted — thanks to the efforts of committee members — some amendments to help assure ourselves around that.

Yet still to come are the publishing of regulations and the CRTC actions in the future. We need to watch and ensure that our nightmares don’t become a reality. Much of the success — or failure — of the bill depends on the transformation of the current CRTC, and the shift to a more nimble regulator, as nothing kills innovation like delay.

I believe that the Senate will have a continuing and vital role to play with this bill over the next few years. I urge the Transport and Communications Committee to consider emulating the long-standing practice of the Banking Committee which regularly and systematically interacts with the Governor of the Bank of Canada.

We’ve heard, and it’s well-known, that this practice was welcomed by previous governors as being an excellent exercise in the exchange of ideas, as well as a personal responsibility-and-accountability exercise for the governor in a unique environment. We’ve heard similar comments from the Superintendent of Financial Institutions in the past at the Banking Committee — I’ve been involved with that; it’s a great exercise, and it’s one that should be emulated with the Transport and Communications Committee through frequent meetings with the chair of the CRTC, through the regulatory process and the execution process. It would be extremely valuable.

After the work that we did, the 100-plus witnesses we heard and the thousands of messages that we got from concerned Canadians across the country, that is the least we can do — to ensure that this bill is implemented in the way that we all have been given to understand that it will be implemented. Thank you.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker informed the Senate that a message had been received from the House of Commons with Bill C-22, An Act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act.

(Bill read first time.)

Senator Housakos: It does not address my concerns, and it did not address the concerns of all of the digital-first content producers who came before our committee. You were a diligent part of that process.

With all due respect, pop-ups and advertising strips do not drive content. That was also validated by the platforms themselves when they came before our committee. There was never an ambiguity that there is only one way to drive outcomes, and that is algorithmic manipulation. That is clear in the report. There was no witness that called that into question — not the platforms themselves and not the CRTC chairs themselves.

Furthermore, the problem we have, as we’ve seen in history, the CRTC has full discretion in the old Broadcasting Act and they do today. The CRTC chair admitted that he has full authority in order to implement the Broadcasting Act. We had an example last year when the CRTC censored a particular program and a journalist at Radio-Canada because a word was used that was deemed inappropriate by the CRTC. They had the power with the old Broadcasting Act to censor that journalist. I will not get into the details and I will not use the word because it is inappropriate, but it is an example of how the CRTC has the power to censor. We should be very careful. And why are we fearful?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

[English]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator McPhedran, calling the attention of the Senate to parliamentary privilege, the Ethics and Conflict of Interest Code for Senators and options for increasing accountability, transparency and fairness in the context of the Senate’s unique self-governance, including guidelines on public disclosure.

Hon. Scott Tannas: Honourable senators,

Four strong winds that blow lonely

Seven seas that run high

All those things that don’t change come what may

But our good times are all gone

And I’m bound for movin’ on

I’ll look for you if I’m ever back this way.

These words are the chorus of a classic Canadian song, “Four Strong Winds,” written by Ian Tyson and first recorded by Ian and his wife, Sylvia Fricker, simply known to Canadians as Ian & Sylvia.

On December 29, Ian Tyson passed away and Canada lost a folk and country music icon.

He was a transplanted Alberta country singer-songwriter, who began by teaching himself to play the guitar while in hospital following a rodeo accident.

His music career began in the late 1950s when he joined the folk music scene in Toronto. He met his music and life partner Sylvia, and they formed a duo and recorded 13 albums.

The couple broke up, both professionally and personally, in 1975, and Ian moved back to Alberta to continue his music as a solo artist. He set about also to live his dream of owning a cattle ranch in the southern Alberta foothills and being a cowboy. He worked to gain the respect of both his fellow ranchers and environmentalists as an advocate of land stewardship and conservation.

Meanwhile, his music took a greater country feeling to it and he continued to write and record until 2015.

Ian Tyson was a Member of the Order of Canada and a member of the Alberta Order of Excellence. He was inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame and the Canadian Country Music Hall of Fame.

For his fans, “Four Strong Winds” will always be their favourite.

On a personal note, over the last 40 years, Ian became a familiar figure in my hometown of High River, which is about 20 miles from his ranch. He was humble. He was generous with both his time and his money. There’s a funny story that circulated for years in High River of a retail clerk — a young lady — who saw the name Ian Tyson on the credit card and said to him, “You look a lot like the famous Ian Tyson.” He said, “I get that a lot, but I don’t think I look like him anymore.”

To his family and all his fans, he will be deeply missed, but his music, which honours his Western roots, will live on always.

[Translation]

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear!

Hon. Michèle Audette: Honourable senators, it is February, the love month. More importantly, it is heart month, and I rise to speak to you with an open heart. I was heartbroken when I learned that research on heart disease and stroke in women is 14 years behind — that’s my son’s age — and that two thirds of clinical studies focus on our sons, our brothers, our fathers, that is, on men. Also heartbreaking is the fact that heart disease and strokes are the leading cause of premature death in women in Canada.

According to the Heart and Stroke Foundation, heart disease and stroke claimed the lives of 32,271 women in Canada in 2019 alone. That is one woman dying every 16 minutes. I’m sure you can understand why that resonates so strongly with me.

Colleagues, women don’t always suffer a Hollywood-style heart attack like we see on TV or in the movies. A common symptom is severe chest pain. The signs and symptoms of a heart attack often go unnoticed by half of these women.

My dear family of female senators, my dear women friends, my heart’s desire is to touch your hearts and ensure that all these women finally get the right protection. It’s their turn. I won’t get into the details of the pains and symptoms, but it can happen to us.

Don’t lose heart, because Heart and Stroke is working hard every day to close those gaps and fight heart disease and stroke to keep us healthy. We deserve it too.

I hope this heart-to-heart has meant as much to you as it did to me. Take care of your heart. I’m trying to take care of mine.

In closing, I’d like to mention a warm-hearted Innu man who was just appointed to the Heart and Stroke board: Francis Verreault-Paul. I admire this young man so much. Tshinashkumitin for getting involved.

Remember, anything is possible when your heart is in the right place.

[English]

Hon. Colin Deacon: Honourable senators, you may be surprised to learn that, despite living in Nova Scotia, my sea legs are not what I had hoped. On anything but the calmest of water, I find myself being the source of amusement versus assistance on the deck of a boat, as I spend most of my time involuntarily feeding fish.

That’s just one of the reasons why I admire the courageous and hard-working women and men who go to work on the cold, dangerous seas, delivering some $2.4 billion of seafood exports from our province to more than 60 countries every year.

I’m equally grateful for the ingenuity that makes their jobs safer and more sustainable. One such ingenious innovator is Marc d’Entremont of Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Marc’s family has fished for generations. While still in his twenties, he co-owned three 65-foot trawlers and fished groundfish quotas off Pubnico. This type of fishing uses traditional trawling gear — a large scoop-shaped net that drags the ocean floor. It takes a lot of time and fuel and, in addition to the targeted species, brings in a lot of bycatch that just has to be thrown overboard. It can also often result in lost gear and ecosystem damage.

In his thirties, Marc left the family business and turned his attention to completely redesigning the methods used for ocean trawling. His new company, Katchi, has developed a flying trawl system that uses depth sounders and AI to ensure the fishing nets do not touch the seabed. Katchi is also working to herd targeted species while deterring unwanted ones. Working with partners, they’ve designed an uncrewed service vessel to scout for fish in surrounding waters, delivering the precise location of targeted species. Their innovative methods are reducing fuel consumption, ecosystem damage and the risk of lost gear in the ocean.

Katchi promises to deliver a much more cost-efficient harvest to fishers and a much more sustainable fishery. In Marc’s words, it’s all pros and no cons, and global experts agree. Katchi won the Cisco Global Problem Solver Challenge prize and previously led a $3.3-million award from Canada’s Ocean Supercluster.

More than ever, we are challenged to simultaneously deliver improved economic, environmental and ecological results. Some believe that these are competing priorities. I do not — if we are willing to change how we do things: change our basic assumptions, practices and, sometimes, our rules and regulations. Achieving these improved results demands us to be highly innovative so that we can continue to deliver the conditions necessary for future generations to prosper and thrive.

Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Rosa Galvez: Honourable senators, Canada must continue to take meaningful steps to become more resilient in the face of ever-increasing impacts of climate change. The Sendai Framework for Disaster Risk Reduction adopted by the United Nations in 2015 sets out a comprehensive approach to disaster risk management with a focus on reducing vulnerabilities and increasing resilience. This framework has informed work on adaptation, including our own — Canada’s — 2022 National Adaptation Strategy, which will play a critical role in ensuring that we are prepared for the challenges we are facing today.

This framework coordinates action across all levels of government to address the impacts of climate change on our economy, infrastructure, natural environments and health and well-being.

A key area where engineers play a crucial role in increasing resilience is in the design and construction of infrastructure — for example, by developing a stronger building code. Engineers are trained to consider the potential impacts of climate change on the infrastructure and to incorporate measures to reduce the risks posed by this impact. This includes designing buildings, roads and bridges to be more resistant to extreme weather events and to be more adaptable to changing conditions.

The American Society of Civil Engineers, the ASCE, provided the rationale for the $1.2-trillion Inflation Reduction Act, or IRA. Their ATLAS initiative for climate resilient infrastructure aligns with the goal of the United States’ IRA by promoting the integration of resilience into planning, design, construction and maintenance. Their initiative aims to lift the quality of infrastructure by creating national assessments for climate resilience and also aims to reduce climate risk, share knowledge and innovation and attract capital for a more competitive and resilient society.

The next G7 meeting, which Japan is hosting in May 2023, will provide an important opportunity for the world’s leading economies to come together and take action on issues related to climate change and resilience, including by endorsing the principles of the ATLAS initiative. Canada must use this opportunity to showcase our progress in becoming more resilient and to work with the expertise of our learning societies to develop new and innovative solutions to address the challenges we face today.

Thank you. Meegwetch.

Hon. Patrick Brazeau: Thank you, honourable senators.

[Editor’s Note: Senator Brazeau spoke in Algonquin.]

Honourable senators, on January 15, we lost a legend — an Algonquin legend; former NHLer Gino Odjick from the Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg reserve passed away. Born September 7, 1970, to Papa Joe and Giselle, Gino had humble beginnings like many of us. One of six children, Gino learned the importance of sharing and taking care of others, as his parents had cared for up to 32 foster kids during their lives.

He worked hard with his dad, helping to take care of the horses and working in the bush until he had the opportunity to play hockey outside of the community, first with Hawkesbury and then with Laval.

In high school, a teacher asked Gino what he was going to do with his life. Without missing a beat, Gino replied, “I’m going to be a professional hockey player,” to which the teacher’s reply was, “Yeah right. Good luck with that.”

Gino went on to play 605 NHL games with the Canucks, Islanders, Flyers and my team, the Montreal Canadiens — although he had a few more penalty minutes than 605.

[Translation]

Gino could light up a room with his presence, his friendly personality and his unwavering optimism. He had a heart of gold and a way of making everyone in his orbit feel special. His zest for life was contagious.

For Gino, life was never about accolades and achievements. He was a humble, authentic, loyal man, always ready to listen to others. He was committed to giving back to the community and First Nations.

Gino was much more than a hockey player. He was a role model who showed us what determination and a positive attitude can accomplish. He was also a loving father, very proud of his children, and a loyal friend to many.

[English]

While Gino passed into the spirit world at the young age of 52, we can take solace in the fact that he lived life to the fullest and had many unique experiences. He lived every hockey player’s dream, having the opportunity to play in the Stanley Cup finals against the New York Rangers in 1994.

In a moment of pride to all of us, he was immortalized in the BC Sports Hall of Fame, where he was pleased to be placed beside Pat Quinn, for whom he had much respect.

Colleagues, I invite you to join me and the entire Algonquin Nation in paying tribute to his spirit and to do what the fans in Vancouver used to do, and that is to chant his name so that the Kitigan Zibi Anishinabeg reserve, an hour and a half north of here, can hear: “Gino, Gino, Gino.”

Meegwetch.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, I rise today to pay tribute to a dear friend of mine and also a dear friend of the Senate: Al Fleming, a man whom we paid tribute to just on Tuesday with a moment of silence.

Al was a man who left an imprint on everyone who had the privilege to know him and work with him. He was purposeful. He was genuine. He was personable. And he was loved by all.

Over the years, Al and I had a bit of a greeting game. Whenever we would cross paths, we would say, “Hello, how are you?” — and then it would become a race to say, “All the better for seeing you.” I can hear the sound of his voice as I say these words out loud, and I presume many here can also hear his distinctive voice and hold on dearly to shared memories.

Regardless of affiliation, Al was an effective adviser and a valued friend to many of us in this chamber. I believe that is because he was guided by strong values grounded in his faith.

Colleagues, I wish to share with you a timeless note from Al in hopes that these words become a beacon for me and for all of us here today. This is from January 2015, when he wrote to me:

Thank you . . . for standing up for your beliefs on behalf of Christians, those who embrace freedom, and for anyone with a sense of fairness, equality and a true respect for diversity.

Our rights and freedom were built upon a foundational belief in and acknowledgement of God and the grace He has shown this nation . . .

What you are doing REALLY matters. To me. To others. To believers in this nation. And to Canada.

Colleagues, I felt it was important to pay tribute today to a wise, yet humble, man.

Al was a committed Christian and was confident that at the end of his life, he would meet his Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ face to face. When that moment came on January 7, I can picture the joy on Al’s face and imagine Jesus smiling at Al as Al said to him, “I’m all the better for seeing you.”

Colleagues, I look forward to the day when I meet Al again and I can say to Al Fleming, “I’m all the better for seeing you.”

Heaven’s gain is our loss, and I wish to offer my dearest sympathies to his loved ones: his wife Beth, his family, his friends and everyone here in the Senate.

Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 34, dated November 23, 2021, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Canada Revenue Agency — shelters.