The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I would ask you to rise and join me in observing one minute of silence in memory of our deceased colleague.

(Honourable senators then stood in silent tribute.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Councillor Tanya Foubert, Town of Canmore. She is the guest of the Honourable Senator Sorensen.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Dawn Edlund, Diane Burrows and Michael Molloy. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Jaffer.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Martin: This report also shows that, while the number of drug-impaired driving incidents increased, the number of active officers trained as drug recognition experts — speaking of testing — has decreased. There were 68 fewer of these officers across Canada in 2021 compared to the previous year.

Leader, due to the COVID-19 pandemic, capacity limits were placed on the number of officers that could be trained at certification events.

Could you make inquiries and let us know if the capacity limits have been lifted? What will your government do to ensure more officers receive this training, and are active in communities across our country?

Senator Seidman: Yes.

Hon. Diane Bellemare: Would Senator Seidman take another question?

Senator Campbell: Absolutely.

Hon. Robert Black: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, I am sure you’re well aware that tomorrow is Canada’s Agriculture Day. Tomorrow — and I hope every day — farmers, producers and all members of the agriculture and processing sectors are being celebrated for their immeasurable contributions to this country. They remain an essential part of every Canadian’s life, and continued support for their tireless efforts remains paramount to the success of the nation.

However, while the agricultural industry has had many successes, they continue to face obstacles, barriers and difficulties. Whether it’s climate change, the COVID-19 pandemic, labour shortages or regulatory issues, all members of this sector repeatedly rise to the challenge in the face of many issues. Their determination, skill and dedication continue to be appreciated by Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

Senator Gold, can you please tell us what the Canadian government is currently doing to help solve these ongoing challenges to the sector, namely, processing capacity, food security, soil health and climate change, just to name a few?

Ahead of your response, I want to wish you and my colleagues here in the chamber and all Canadians a very happy Agriculture Day tomorrow.

Hon. Pamela Wallin, pursuant to notice of February 9, 2023, moved:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy be permitted, notwithstanding usual practices, to deposit with the Clerk of the Senate a report relating to its study on the state of the Canadian economy and inflation, if the Senate is not then sitting, and that the report be deemed to have been tabled in the Senate.

Senator Martin: Leader, there are well over 2 million applications caught in the backlog at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. Today, according to the government’s own website, the application processing time for a skilled tradesperson seeking entry to Canada is 70 months.

Despite the massive backlog and little evidence Canadians are getting good value for money spent on the McKinsey contracts, the Trudeau government revised an immigration department contract during the pandemic to give McKinsey even more money.

Leader, could you tell us why your government believed McKinsey deserved extra money from Canadian taxpayers for a job done so poorly?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Miville-Dechêne: Like you, I’m keenly interested in electoral debates. However, I must say that I have been quite concerned ever since an independent commission has been handling these debates that seem increasingly formatted and artificial, where we are unable to hear the voice of the candidates. Everything is scientifically measured, but, honestly, not very moving. What’s more, the last time, during the English debate, the size of the event was a terrible mistake and there weren’t enough journalists in charge. What do you think about the current format, which I dislike immensely?

[English]

Senator McPhedran: Senator McCallum, towards the end of your speech, you addressed the conundrum of leadership within colonial institutions. I’m mindful, as are many here, that you’re the chancellor of a university in Manitoba, and I wonder how you reconcile those two roles, whether it is a constant conflict, because, of course, universities are one of the locations where we’re seeing many of the cases that you have spoken to tonight.

Senator McCallum: Thank you for the question. I had to decide how I was going to be involved in this issue of identity theft and fraud, and I decided I would take it as a senator, which meant that I told the university, the board of governors and the Senate to which I belong that I would not be involved in how they were going to deal with the policy of identity theft and fraud.

They are developing it on their own. They don’t discuss it in front of me. They will deal with it and with other universities. They’re working with the University of Manitoba.

(On motion of Senator Dalphond, debate adjourned.)

Senator Seidman: Thank you, senator, for your question. It is a complex question; it is not subtle, and it demands a lot of thought.

The bill itself, as I said, is extremely meagre. It is a framework piece of legislation. It purports to do a lot, and promises to do a lot, but it doesn’t offer much substance, and leaves most of the details, as I said, to the Governor-in-Council — to regulations.

I think it’s up to the committee to have the kind of witness testimony that would address the issue you’re putting forward — how that is connected to a piece of legislation that wants to provide a monthly disability benefit so that people can receive the financial support they need in order to proceed with their daily living. I think that’s what the bill is trying to do. Exactly how that would speak to the point you’re making is, I think, something for the committee to explore.

[Translation]

Senator Yussuff: One of my biggest worries about the bill is that the provinces will claw back certain aspects of this benefit.

As you know, provinces run their own programs. I would argue that, throughout history, there has been a sense of meanness in their applications, especially to people with disabilities because they are the most vulnerable. Now layering a federal benefit on top of that, without any certainty that the province will not claw it back, is a real worry. Is this something the committee should examine? Many of the activists who have been lobbying spoke about this.

We need to assure ourselves that one hand will not take from the other hand just because they can do so under their own jurisdiction. I think this would be a terrible tragedy, and it is not what the bill is intended to do.

More importantly, trying to lift people out of poverty — people who have disabilities — in this country should be a laudable expectation for everyone. The provinces and the federal government should work this out in a way that will give us assurances that whatever money is allocated will not be clawed back by provincial governments across the country.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, pursuant to the order adopted on December 7, 2021, I would like to inform the Senate that Question Period with the Honourable Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, will take place on March 7, 2023, at 2:30 p.m.

[Translation]

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Cotter, seconded by the Honourable Senator Woo, for the second reading of Bill C-22, An Act to reduce poverty and to support the financial security of persons with disabilities by establishing the Canada disability benefit and making a consequential amendment to the Income Tax Act.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Dasko, calling the attention of the Senate to the role of leaders’ debates in enhancing democracy by engaging and informing voters.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. The government is not doing nothing. The government has pursued — and is continuing to investigate — these matters, and it will continue to do so in an appropriate way.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): About three weeks ago, leader, the Commissioner of the Canada Revenue Agency told a committee of the other place that to further investigate the $15.5 billion paid out to recipients for the wage subsidy “. . . wouldn’t be worth the effort.”

To provide some context, $15.5 billion would pay for more than three years of new spending — announced last week — for provincial health care services.

I think the middle-class Canadians that the Prime Minister likes to talk about would be mystified that billions of their tax dollars are considered inconsequential by this government.

Last week, the Parliamentary Budget Officer told our National Finance Committee that this is disconcerting, and I quite agree with him.

Why doesn’t the Trudeau government believe this work is worth the effort?