Senator Housakos: Would Senator Simons take a question?

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

The Hon. the Speaker: Are senators ready for the question?

The Hon. the Speaker: All those opposed will please say “nay.”

Senator Miville-Dechêne: Let me start again. Unlike you, I don’t have absolute faith in the free market. Simply promoting a given song, for whatever reason, doesn’t mean it’s normal for that song to always top the others. I think the beauty of our Canadian cultural laws and regulations is that they showcase different Canadian cultural products.

This idea of putting forward a song, whether it’s American, British or Pakistani — I understand that you think that’s what works. You like the free market system. You are happy that the most popular ones are basically the only ones that get any play. However, that greatly reduces cultural diversity. Don’t forget that less than 5% of the songs that Quebecers listen to on Spotify are from Quebec artists. We got to that point because people can’t find these songs — they are tucked away at the back of the closet, as we say. Sometimes, young Quebecers should hear a song and say to themselves: “Oh, look at that! Here is a song by a Quebec artist. I should listen to it.” The idea behind this isn’t to force someone to listen to certain content, but to offer content. That’s the difference.

A system that suggests songs based on an algorithm has nothing to do with our cultural diversity or Canadian culture. It’s a commercial, for-profit system, and foreign companies are currently controlling our cultural consumption.

Hon. Brian Francis: My question is for the Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament, Senator Bellemare.

Senator Bellemare, could you give us an update on the work your committee has accomplished and intends to accomplish during the current session?

[Translation]

Hon. Victor Oh: Honourable senators, I rise today to pay tribute to a great friend, mentor and extraordinary Canadian, Hazel McCallion, who sadly passed on Sunday, two and a half weeks shy of her one hundred and second birthday. A long-time mayor of Mississauga, Hazel McCallion led a small collective of towns in the late 1970s to transform into the sixth-largest city in Canada. Most importantly, Hazel was instrumental in turning Mississauga into one of the most culturally diverse cities in the country.

Personally, Hazel applied the same work ethic and enthusiasm to her friendships. Ours, for example, spanned over three decades, with many trips abroad, monthly breakfasts and countless cherished memories. As I was a new Canadian, she took me under her wing and guided me on the ways of Canada, in particular, our respect and appreciation for diversity and a strong commitment to community service. I’m certain that if not for her friendship and guidance, I would never have the opportunity to sit in this chamber at the service of Ontarians and Canadians.

I last saw Hazel two weeks ago. We chatted, debated and reminisced in our familiar patterns. Before my departure, the forever-playful Hazel left me with a very special parting gift, one of her famous bobble-head dolls, which she dated and signed. Needless to say, this will be a cherished piece of memorabilia in the Oh household.

Colleagues, I consider myself extremely fortunate to have had over 30 years of friendship with Hazel McCallion. She will be terribly missed by me and my family. I would like to wish her children, Peter, Paul and Linda, my sincere condolences. Hazel, thank you for your service to Canada. May she rest in peace, thank you.

Some Hon. Senators: Yes.

The Hon. the Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please say “yea.”

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Richards, are you asking for five more minutes?

(1550)

Senator Cormier: I have a supplementary question for Senator Richards.

Senator Richards, like me, you sat on the committee and you heard the multitude of artists and artistic organizations that came to talk to us and who weren’t afraid to express how they felt about the freedom of expression that Bill C-11 prevents them from having.

Explain to me why you have such a concern when the entire Canadian ecosystem at the professional artist level doesn’t seem to have this concern. Are they simply misguided?

[English]

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Housakos, he has three-and-a-half minutes.

Senator Bellemare: Okay, the activities. That is the activity we completed, and we will continue. Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Housakos, you have the floor.

[English]

Senator Richards: They should be, senator. I’ll tell you a story about this young Mi’kmaq girl that I helped in the university. The story has never been published. She was a little girl who was asked by her mother not to play in the woods because there had been a murder there. I won’t tell you what reserve it is. She went down to the water and her mother said, “You cannot play in the water because a man drowned a woman there.” She went on the street and her mother said, “You can’t go on the street because there are too many people and too much danger.” She could only find one place to sit. This was a seven-page story, and I had tears in my eyes when I read it because it reminded me of my own granddaughter. The only place she could sit was in the basement of her house in her bedroom, and it was there where her uncle had hung himself.

That story, written by a girl from a reserve near us, was absolutely moving, but it had nothing to do with identity politics. It had to do with identifying one human heart to the other. That is what I’m afraid this CRTC bill loses in the context of the bill. That’s the reason. Thank you.

Hon. Colin Deacon: Senator Manning, one of the concerns I have with our regulatory burden in Canada — there is so much that has been embedded in legislation that, absolutely, we know how slowly we get new legislation through this chamber.

When you embed something like that into legislation, like a certain threshold — whether or not this is needed or required in any way; I can’t speak to that — but, certainly, I’m trying to move away from that.

Have you considered options as it relates to having this threshold that you think is so important given as advice to government in regulations? The reality is, if we put a specific number into the legislation, that’s almost impossible to change. This is 30 years in the making — this change that we are seeing right now. Is that something you have considered? Is that something you have worked on and considered — any alternatives other than embedding in legislation?

Senator Housakos: Senator Richards, we have heard time and again — and we heard it again from the sponsor of the bill today — how Canada needs to protect Canadian culture. Again, I’ve said this many times, I think Canadian culture has never been as strong as it is today. Our writers, producers, actors, singers — we’ve seen what modern-day platforms have done for people like The Weeknd, Justin Bieber and so many others.

Can you tell us what, if anything, is out there that requires legislation in the Parliament of Canada and the Government of Canada that needs to protect Canadian culture in 2023?

Senator Richards: Thank you for the question. I don’t think very much can be in their hands because it reminds me of the story about a Czechoslovakian clown in Prague who did this little act and he was brilliant at it. He had a little cowboy hat, a lasso and he could slip through the lasso — he was an absolute magician. The state artistic community stopped him from doing that because it showed Western culture decadence. That is the kind of thing that, although extremely subtle in this bill — and I say is extremely subtle — still is an overplay toward Canadian culture that will undermine it, and that is why I spoke today on it.

There is no reason in the world why we need to do that.

[Translation]

Senator Richards: Again, I come back to what I said before — that sooner or later talent will rise to the top. That’s all I’m saying.

Maybe I’m from “old Canada,” but I didn’t have a reading outside of New Brunswick until I wrote my fifth book. I didn’t get reviews that complimented my work until I was published in New York. So “old Canada” as it is, I struggled through all of that and I’m not one bit ashamed of it. I think a hundred other artists and poets and writers have done the same thing. We all reach our level in different ways. If the person you are talking about has reached her level in that way, that’s fine. But I don’t think the CRTC is a platform that will automatically ensure greatness of expression. As a matter of fact, I think it will probably do damage to greatness of expression.

[Translation]