Senator Plett: Senator Kutcher, Charles Gray is the superintendent of elephants at African Lion Safari. He has worked hands-on with elephants since 1982, has been the elephant manager at Africa Lion Safari since 1987. Charlie is a founding board member of the Elephant Managers Association, and he is a founding and current board member of the International Elephant Foundation. He has served on the American Association of Zoos and Aquariums’ Taxon Advisory Group for the Asian elephant species survival program from 1988 to 2019. He is a world-renowned elephant expert.

Mr. Gray told us, Senator Kutcher, that, contrary to what you have said and other so-called experts would have us believe, the elephants under their care and their love thrive in all four seasons. This is partly because most of the herd of Asian elephants were born and raised in Canada. They’ve never been to Asia. They are very acclimatized to our winters. In fact, Mr. Gray says their elephants actually prefer the cold to the heat partly because there are no bugs. They also love to run and play in the snow, to break the ice on the lake and go swimming. They have large, heated enclosures — they are not in cages — where they can come and go as they please. They have doors that they open themselves as they come in and out of the cold.

Now, have you spoken to any of these caregivers? I have visited more zoos in the last two years than I have been to in my life. These facilities are huge. These elephants are no longer being ridden, although certainly what they would experience in their home countries would include being ridden. They are used to haul stuff, to carry stuff, to drag stuff. Yet here they are being treated cruelly by not having to do any of that? They are living not in enclosures but in a wildlife environment —

Senator Gagné: What is your question?