Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: Honourable senators, I note that this item is at 15 days, but I am not ready to speak at this time. Therefore, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 4-15(3), I move the adjournment of the debate for the balance of my time.

The Hon. the Speaker: My apologies, Senator Manning. It is now six o’clock and, pursuant to rule 3-3(1), I am required to leave the chair until 8 p.m. unless there is an agreement that we not see the clock.

Is there agreement?

Senator Plett: No.

Hon. Percy E. Downe: First, I want to compliment you on both your speech and your remarks. Obviously, this bill is very important for working Canadians. Too many children are growing up without dental care. You outlined the concerns about getting a job, social inclusion and so on. It becomes a class issue if you don’t have your teeth fixed, and everybody else in your classroom does.

Second, I want to add this is a benefit of the coalition between the NDP and the Liberals because it has been a long-time commitment of the NDP to initiate this program. The Liberal government wanted to do it for many years and now has done it. This is great cooperation between the two parties in the House of Commons.

Would you share my view that we should strive for a standard of care for all Canadians that is equal to the assistance senators currently receive for dental, health care, drug coverage and pension coverage in this country?

Senator Yussuff: Thank you, Senator Downe, for your wonderful question. In this chamber, we have a lot of privileges. If Canadians could only enjoy them, we would certainly have a far more equal country. One day, maybe.

Senator Downe, I remember vividly in your province when a good friend of mine named Wes Sheridan was crafting the dental program to support working families in P.E.I. He was writing his budget and he told me what he was doing. I was so proud of his leadership because it allowed many poor kids in the province of P.E.I. — one of the smallest provinces in our country — to say they deserve the same thing that other provinces could afford despite the fact they didn’t have the same level of revenue. They saw it as a priority.

I do believe we have a long way to go. If Canadians can have the same benefits as senators have in this chamber, I hope that’s where we will get to one day. Until then, we will have to continue to build it incrementally until we get there. Thank you very much.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Gold, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading at the next sitting of the Senate.)

(1420)

[English]

Senator Seidman: Thank you, senator. What you’re asking is a really critical question. There is no doubt about that. But the fact is that we don’t have a lot of data to provide those answers. The provinces in Canada are where dental services are currently provided for children, and there are varying degrees of recording this. Dentists don’t keep this information. They can’t. If you ask them, they will say they don’t record this information. Therefore, it falls upon some agency to do this. There isn’t a national agency that records that information because it’s a provincial responsibility.

How to evaluate the success of its outcome is the big question here. There is no doubt about that.

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate.

Last year, Quebec reported 26 femicides, two thirds of which occurred in a domestic violence context. Every year, the Quebec courts handle more than 20,000 cases of domestic violence, and in 90% of cases, women are the victims. Every year, police in Quebec receive more than 60,000 reports of domestic violence. In Canada, last year, 173 women were killed in a domestic violence context, not to mention the children.

In its seven years in office, why hasn’t Justin Trudeau’s Liberal government passed legislation to make women in Canada safer?

Senator Seidman: Thank you, senator. There we have really hit the wall because, as you know, data collection in this country is a huge issue. We discovered that during COVID. Certainly, every province collects their own data. There is not a lot of sharing. The data that is collected isn’t consistently gathered in the same way in every province, so it’s very hard from the point of view of being comparable.

Data is what you use to analyze whether the program is successful or not. In this case, we have an interim, two-year situation. I think it’s a serious problem to ever find out whether the outcome has been achieved. For any long-term program, one would have to build in some kind of data collection system in order to be able to analyze whether you’re really meeting your objectives.

Senator M. Deacon: Thank you.

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: My question is to the government leader in the Senate.

Senator Gold, today Employment and Social Development Canada announced that it was launching consultations to:

. . . build a pan-Canadian school food policy that is responsive to the evolving needs of children and families, while also setting a foundation for a future where more children in Canada have access to nutritious food while at school.

The release states that one in five children in Canada are food-insecure. However, in Nunavut, that number is, sadly, closer to three in every five children.

On top of that, food costs two and a half to three times more in our territory than anywhere in Southern Canada. As you know, there are also logistical hurdles to getting nutritious food into the territory, given that all 25 communities are fly-in only and face significant challenges due to weather and lack of infrastructure, such as shorter, unpaved runways.

My question, Senator Gold, is this: Will your government commit that it will not only consult with the Government of Nunavut and Nunavut Inuit but also ensure that any school food program breaks with the usual per capita funding model in recognition of the additional challenges and barriers Nunavummiut face when trying to access fresh and nutritious food?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. You raise an important issue. Those of us in the chamber who have had, as I have, the privilege of visiting the North, Iqaluit and others, know first‑hand, albeit at a distance, what the challenges are. You only have to walk into a grocery store and look at the sticker prices to know how challenging it is to get affordable, nutritious food, and that is in a major city compared to the more remote locations.

The government is committed to improving food security in the North through a whole-of-government approach that includes working with provinces, territories and Indigenous leadership in communities. In this regard, Nutrition North Canada is a key part of the government’s response to the food security issue.

It’s committed to working with, as I said, the provinces, territories, municipalities, Indigenous partners and stakeholders to develop a national school food policy and to work towards a national school nutritious meal program and has begun to work on implementing this commitment. It has begun informal consultations with stakeholders and experts and plans to engage with provincial and territorial governments as well as with Indigenous partners. I fully expect that the issues you raise have been raised and will continue to be raised in the process of these consultations, and the government will listen seriously to those considerations and concerns.

Senator Gold: I certainly will make a point of underlining that particular concern when I report to the government.

[Translation]

Senator Patterson: Thank you for that answer, Senator Gold. Nunavut is the largest region in the country, larger than Quebec or Ontario, but with the smallest population. We are always nervous about per capita funding, which can be very punitive when it comes to fairness in our region.

I would like to ask if you would specifically pay attention to this danger we see of having per capita formulas prejudice our ability to meet the worthwhile needs of this newly announced program.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Government leader, it has been just over a week since we learned of the extravagant hotel bill that Canadians will be footing for Canada’s delegation to the Queen’s funeral, which included a charge of a $6,000-per-night room at London’s Corinthia Hotel for five nights.

Senator Gold, I remind you that it was the current Prime Minister who promised Canadians transparency and accountability. Yet, on this expense, he remains tight-lipped about who stayed in the premium room. Now, if he is not ashamed of who stayed there, why won’t he tell us who it is? We now know definitely that it was not the Governor General as per a statement released by her office last week.

It is bad enough, Senator Gold, that Canadians are on the hook for this luxury invoice. By the looks of it, the only way to get to the bottom of this expense would be for someone to hire a private investigator.

Leader, will you give Canadians the transparency that they were promised by telling this chamber who stayed in that hotel room?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. As I have mentioned on other occasions, and as we know from reports, the official Canadian delegation was a large one, as would be expected of Canada as a leading member of the Commonwealth. All members of the delegation, including two Conservative prime ministers, stayed at the same hotel, which was a hotel that was able to accommodate the size of the delegation during a period of extremely high demand, as senators would appreciate.

As always, this government made every effort to ensure that the spending on official trips is responsible and transparent.

Senator Plett: Senator Gold, are you suggesting that one of these former Conservative prime ministers stayed in that room? That’s who you’re talking about. We understand there was a large delegation. They didn’t all stay in that room. This wasn’t a party room. The whole delegation didn’t stay there, although they should have. For $6,000 a night, the whole delegation should have stayed there.

Leader, I doubt that this is what Canadians expected when it comes to accountability and transparency. Your government’s claim to this expense as being appropriate and transparent — and, indeed, your claim to that — is appalling and shocking.

Senator Gold, since your government feels comfortable in its choices being appropriate, and if you are not ashamed of what your government has done, you should have no problem about being transparent and telling us who stayed in that room. I’m quite happy to ask former Conservative prime minister Stephen Harper if he stayed in that room. I have a pretty good idea he is not going to tell me about how big the delegation was. He is going to tell me what room he stayed in.

What room did the Prime Minister stay in? Which room was the Prime Minister in at this hotel?

Senator Boisvenu: Senator Gold, please convey the following message to the Prime Minister: He may have adopted a strategy to reduce violence against women in Canada, but it has failed.

In 2021, in Quebec, a repeat offender awaiting trial on a domestic violence charge, a man with a lifelong record of 51 crimes, including 11 domestic violence convictions and three sexual assaults, was released after violating parole three times. A few days later, he murdered his wife.

Senator Gold, why, for the past seven years, has every bill passed by the Liberal government contributed to making women less safe, including Bill C-5, which will be passed soon? Please explain to me why every single bill has eroded women’s safety, making them less safe than they were seven years ago.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. I would like to start by making a distinction and pointing out that the tragedies that you mentioned are completely unacceptable.

At the same time, what you said is not necessarily true. The Government of Canada does not believe that that was the effect of the measures that were in place, those that are currently being debated — we will begin third reading of Bill C-5 tomorrow — or even those that were proposed and implemented to make women and other victims safer.

On the contrary, research clearly shows that mandatory minimum sentences and other such initiatives did not meet their objective. Bill C-5 and the Government of Canada’s other criminal justice initiatives help guarantee Canadians’ safety while respecting the rights and freedoms of all citizens, whether it be in matters relating to parole, conditional sentences or other measures in the bill that you mentioned.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Protecting the national security of Canadians is a priority for this government. It’s a mandate that this government has and is acting on with seriousness.

I’m glad, Senator Housakos, that you mentioned that the RCMP is investigating these matters. The RCMP will, where appropriate, take the necessary steps and appropriate charges will be pressed.

Global Affairs Canada officials stated the following:

The activity that’s being alleged would be entirely illegal and totally inappropriate, and it would be the subject of very serious representations . . .

It is appropriate in matters of this kind that we entrust, in this case, the RCMP to do the proper investigation. Regarding other measures that may be taken diplomatically, the government is regularly reviewing its options.

Senator Gold: Senator Housakos, I’m glad you’re glad.

There were a lot of statements and assumptions that you made. Again, it’s very difficult to answer these questions when there’s so much thrown in there that is so clearly incorrect. To imply that the government doesn’t care about Canadians of whatever origin is simply not true. To say that the government is aiding and abetting borders — in fact, I try my best to respect the traditions of Parliament and to find parliamentary language, but I am often driven to despair. Even though I am the son of an English teacher, I cannot find parliamentary language sometimes to fully express my reactions to some of these insinuations.

The Government of Canada is taking its responsibilities to protect Canadians seriously, whether in the diplomatic efforts, behind the scenes or with regard to the deployment of our law enforcement resources. Canadians should be proud that this government respects the democratic traditions, the separations of powers and the discretion that is sometimes necessary in matters of diplomacy.