The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Plett, Senator Dalphond has a question. Would you agree to answer a question?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, as you know, I was once a party president, so I understand very well the severity of this issue. I’m puzzled that your government doesn’t seem to understand the severity of foreign interference in Canada’s electoral processes. It is unfathomable that the Prime Minister has been made aware that Beijing quietly funded 11 candidates in the 2019 federal election and placed operatives on campaign staff and that he was sitting on this information for months.

Senator Gold, what we’re really talking about is the integrity of our democratic institutions, and Canadians are owed better than what you are giving them. They are owed the utmost truth and transparency. Who are the 11 candidates whose offices were allegedly infiltrated by the Chinese Communist Party, or CCP, during the 2019 federal election?

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of representatives and advocates from the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Hartling.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this report be taken into consideration?

(On motion of Senator Jaffer, report placed on the Orders of the Day for consideration at the next sitting of the Senate.)

Senator Batters: Senator Gold, I’m looking for particular examples. Since you listed kidnapping and then referenced some types of situations, do you really think those would result in a kidnapping charge? Because not only do the police have discretion, but the prosecutors and judges have discretion in the types of charges that are laid and the sentences that are given out. For blocking an exit or something like that, would you contend that is actually something that somebody would receive a kidnapping offence charge for?

With respect to custody situations, of course, those can be extremely damaging situations too. We had one in Saskatchewan a few months ago where the mother in that situation had no idea where her child was for months. Wouldn’t you contend that if someone is charged with kidnapping, that is particularly something that should not be a conditional sentence?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: I believe the “nays” have it.

And two honourable senators having risen:

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is it your pleasure to adopt the motion in amendment?

Hon. Kim Pate: Honourable senators, I rise today to congratulate and recognize the humbling and inspirational leadership of our former colleague the Honourable Murray Sinclair and our too-soon-retiring colleague and my seatmate Senator Christmas. These two outstanding First Nations leaders are well recognized for their countless contributions with and for Indigenous peoples in their communities, regions, the country and the world over. Today, Queen’s University in Kingston installed the Honourable Murray Sinclair as its first Indigenous and fifteenth chancellor, and awarded Senator Christmas an honorary PhD in Law.

Hon. Tony Loffreda: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, I would like to talk about immigration in Quebec. We know that this subject has received extensive coverage lately.

Early this month, journalist Joël-Denis Bellavance published an article in La Presse stating that Quebec spent only 25% of the funding it had been given by the federal government for the 2021-22 fiscal year to help immigrants integrate and learn to speak French. We are talking about $168 million out of a total of nearly $700 million.

Senator Gold, can you confirm whether Mr. Bellavance’s reporting is true? If so, is the federal government okay with the fact that this federal funding intended to meet specific provincial objectives is not being spent?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Gold, would you answer a question?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question.

As you know, senator, Quebec has exclusive authority to select the majority of its immigrants. Under the Canada-Quebec Accord, Quebec receives funding to provide French integration programs to newcomers.

The government respects this agreement, which has worked very well for decades. However, the article to which you refer is still concerning. I have been assured that the government continues to work closely with Quebec and is committed to always respecting provincial jurisdiction in immigration matters.

Senator Loffreda: I recognize, accept and approve of the fact that, according to the 1991 Canada-Quebec Accord on immigration, Quebec is responsible for welcoming and integrating newcomers to Quebec and ensuring they know French. I agree with Premier Legault that integration must be at the heart of our immigration policy. However, this recent news troubles me.

If this money were used for the intended purpose, perhaps Quebec could welcome more immigrants and would be able to better integrate them, which could alleviate some of the pressures on the labour market.

Doesn’t the federal government have a responsibility to ensure that the money it transfers to the provinces for a particular program is spent on that program?

Is it time to re-evaluate the concept of unconditional federal transfers to the provinces and explore a transparency and accountability mechanism?

Senator Dalphond: Thank you for expressing your policy on the issue. I think you’re right: The Supreme Court has made clear there are policy decisions to be made here.

You tell me that conditional release should not be imposed to protect the victims, but here we’re talking about the less serious offences that deserve less than two years.

Are you saying that someone who receives a sentence of three months — and the judge thinks that is the proper sentence, according to all the principles and based on his case-by-case analysis — should serve the time in jail? So after three months, what would you do? The person will be released, and will maybe live next to the victim again.

What are you proposing — that the law be amended to specify that the person be forced to live in a different city? Please explain it to me. I understand the victim’s perspective, and the right to be protected, but you think that the conditional sentence is a fix? I don’t think it is a fix. So after three months, what would you do?

(1550)

Senator Dalphond: Don’t you think the real problem is the root cause of this violence? That the real answer is to address the real cause of this violence — that jail is not the answer to it, that three months or three weeks in jail is not going to change a person, that the judge should impose conditions that the person go to therapy to follow some education to better understand his reaction and to have to wear a bracelet that will signal to the victim he’s coming by? Don’t you think three weeks in jail is not protecting the victim enough? There are other ways. We have to address the real issues. It may be sensational to say, “He shall serve three weeks in jail because he did something to deserve jail,” but is that the answer?

Hon. Rosemary Moodie: This question is for the Government Representative.

Senator Gold, as you know, there is a crisis in pediatric health centres across the country. Last Friday at the Hospital for Sick Children, half of the children were in ICU on ventilators, and this spike of respiratory illnesses has prevented surgeries, cancelled emergency room access and flooded intensive care wards. Halifax’s IWK Health Centre set a record a week ago with the highest number of seriously ill patients. CHEO — the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario — opened a second ICU with unprecedented demand.

Senator Gold, I understand and I agree with the federal government’s position that money is not the only solution and there needs to be a systemic change. Nevertheless, we are in a crisis.

Despite the failure to make progress on health funding at the recent Federal-Provincial-Territorial Health Ministers’ meeting, has the Minister of Health re-engaged with his provincial and territorial colleagues to seek pathways for meaningful collaboration to address this pediatric health crisis?

Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer, Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, presented the following report:

Tuesday, November 15, 2022

The Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has the honour to present its

EIGHTH REPORT

Your committee, to which was referred Bill S-210, An Act to restrict young persons’ online access to sexually explicit material, has, in obedience to the order of reference of December 8, 2021, examined the said bill and now reports the same with the following amendments:

1.Clause 11, page 6:

(a) Replace line 11 with the following:

(b) add the following after line 14:

Respectfully submitted,

MOBINA S. B. JAFFER

Chair

Hon. Clément Gignac: Honourable senators, my question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

In her November 3 economic statement, the Minister of Finance had a few surprises for the financial sector. On the positive side, there were smaller-than-expected deficits for the previous and current fiscal years, and the government expressed an intention to return to a balanced budget within five years. However, the government’s decision to stop issuing real return bonds has caused some surprise among the country’s pension funds and insurance companies, which are the traditional purchasers of such products to protect themselves against inflation-related risks.

As my colleagues may recall, real return bonds were introduced with great fanfare in 1991, shortly after the Bank of Canada and the finance minister of the day jointly adopted a 2% inflation target. Now, as National Bank’s chief economist recently noted, Canada will be the only country that no longer issues real return bonds.

Senator Gold, my question is this: Can you clarify the reasons behind the finance minister’s decision to abruptly stop issuing real return bonds, since her economic statement contained only three lines to explain her decision?

Senator Pate: Many of us are well aware of Chancellor Sinclair’s numerous well-deserved honours, his leadership at the bar and on the bench as the first Indigenous judge appointed in Manitoba and the second in Canada and his work exposing Canada to the human rights and Charter violations, systemic discrimination and overrepresentation in the child welfare and criminal legal systems, including issues of murdered and missing Indigenous peoples that dates back decades. He co-chaired the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry of Manitoba and the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Since issuing the report in 2015, his commitment to seeing all 94 Calls to Action implemented has not wavered. Most recently, he urged us to fix Bill C-5 to meet the Calls to Action that address the mass incarceration of Indigenous peoples by freeing judges from the shackles of mandatory minimum penalties.

With wisdom, thoughtfulness and clarity, he continues to urge and inspire all of us to do and be better.

Senator Christmas is also a brilliant leader and advocate with a kind and generous heart. He has worked tirelessly to safeguard Mi’kmaq sovereignty and treaty rights in Nova Scotia and urge reconciliACTION. Before coming here, Senator Christmas was instrumental in taking his community from near bankruptcy to its current circumstances of being one of the most successful and thriving First Nations in this country. In his home community of Membertou and elsewhere, he continues to work to address the persistent challenges that too many face at the hands of discriminatory attitudes and systems that persist.

Senator Christmas’ outstanding achievements and service have been previously recognized with numerous awards and honorary degrees, and among the mountain of his contributions here, many of us will always remember his most touching tribute to his World War II veteran father.

Honourable senators, please join me in celebrating the wonderful recognition of these two amazing, inspirational and fabulous leaders. Meegwetch. Thank you.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the Fall Economic Statement 2022.

[Translation]