Hon. Hassan Yussuff: Honourable senators, I rise in support of Senator Coyle’s climate inquiry. I do this in the context of my previous life, but I speak to it now in the Senate.

As folks were meeting in Egypt just last week at the COP 27 meeting, we learned that we may not meet our stated objective of lowering the temperature in the world by 1.5 degrees. While many of us may not be dismayed about this, I think we should all be extremely worried.

This is not the first time we have been told that the objectives set by the UN and by many of our national governments are not achievable. Every time we are told we have to make a different choice, it makes me wonder — as a human being, but also as a father — what this planet will look like in the near future.

As governments continue to struggle with how they’re going to achieve this objective, we’re witnessing challenges around the world every single day that we have not previously seen in our lifetime: Fires rage out of control, and we can’t seem to find the resolve as to how we’re going to deal with it. Storms that we have never seen in our lifetime are raging and destroying our communities. We ask ourselves the most basic question about whether we can do something about this. We know what the answer is, but we don’t have the resolve to take the necessary steps.

There is the loss of biodiversity — almost every day, we’re told that there is a new animal or species at risk. We’re not sure if they’re going to exist on this planet within our lifetime — never mind the loss of life every time one of these storms or fires rages, whether it’s in our communities here in Canada, or around the world.

The ocean is also warming — I continue to watch some documentaries — and we’re asking ourselves questions. How long can this continue before we are truly going to be in a crisis position we cannot resolve?

My friends, I know many of the questions we’re going to be struggling with regarding the climate are not easy ones. I know this as the former president of the Canadian Labour Congress. Our country made a commitment to phase out coal-fired generation by 2030. There are four provinces in our country — soon to be three — that are still using coal to generate electricity. It’s part of who we are. As a matter of fact, if you go back in Canada’s history, coal is the foundation of the Industrial Revolution. The workers and communities that benefitted from this didn’t do anything wrong. Today we know — the science tells us — that burning coal is not good for the environment or human health, nor is it good for the climate.

However, to ask a worker to give up their job, and stop burning coal because it’s the right thing to do should not be seen as an easy thing — never mind the communities that are going to be impacted by this. When you shut down a coal-fired plant, you take away the resources that are generated from that facility; you also take away the tax base that workers depend upon to build their municipality and grow the services they provide. The list goes on.

We can plan to do all of these things in a timely manner. But we did make a commitment to stop burning coal to generate electricity in our country by 2030. In Saskatchewan, we still burn coal to generate electricity. In Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, we’re still doing this. But 2030 is the objective.

I was asked to co-chair a task force to go out and talk to workers, employers and communities about how we can do this in a way that makes political sense. It was not easy, because talking to workers as a union leader, and telling these workers that their jobs will disappear, is not exactly a pleasant thing you should consciously do unless you’re committed to the greater good. I do realize it was an important thing to be done. After all, I’ve been advocating for solutions to the climate.

I believe workers have an important role to play in dealing with these challenges. As much as they’re not at fault, they have an important role to play. At two conventions, I was the president of the congress. We devoted an entire day to talking about climate change. Why was that important? Because I don’t believe any government can achieve its climate objective unless workers are part of the solution. They will be impacted. Their jobs will be impacted. Their family life and community will be impacted.

I went about my responsibility to talk to workers. As I went to places, it wasn’t easy. Many workers didn’t want to hear it. In many of the communities, and in many of the facilities, workers were making anywhere between $60,000 and $100,000 a year doing this kind of work, and here I was telling them they had to give this up because that was the decision made by their provincial and federal governments. It was not an easy conversation, but many of the unions that represent these workers agreed that this is an objective we should try to accomplish.

Before I went to Saskatchewan, I was told that I shouldn’t go because I would be met with hostility. I told my colleagues that I accepted that as a responsibility and guidance. I told them that none of them had to come, but I had to go.

I did go to Saskatchewan. I met the wonderful people who work in those coal-fired communities. The first thing they asked me was how much I was being paid to do what I was doing. I was wise enough to know not to accept one single honorarium or one penny from the government to co-chair the task force. I said I wasn’t being paid to do this, but I recognized it was necessary.

They wanted to know what was going to happen to their community. What would happen to their housing prices? What would happen to their families? Would they have to pick up and move? I didn’t have the answers for them. That is what we were trying to assess. But, in the process of talking to them, I recognized they were equally as hopeful as I was that we could figure this out. They know the science, and that burning coal does not match with the reality of when they first entered the industry.

We — here in Ontario — did phase out coal-fired generation. We learned lots from that process. As a result of that, today many of the kids in this province can run out in the summertime, and play in the streets and on playgrounds — and we don’t have any more smog alert days to tell them they have to get inside and hide from the outdoors if they have asthma or some breathing challenges.

Saskatchewan, Alberta, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick will have to meet this challenge as to how to phase out coal. But in the process of that, I learned lots: Unless we engage the workers and communities in this conversation, we will be faced with a lot of opposition regarding how to phase out coal. More importantly, with the greater challenge being how to transform the economy to a greener economy, we have to recognize that we cannot discard workers, and simply think we can let them fend for themselves.

We did make 10 recommendations to the federal government — unanimously, all supported by the entire task force. Of course, now the federal government and the provinces have to work to ensure we can meet these objectives.

Equally, the federal government will have to ensure a just transition, as is stated in the UN goal — the Paris Agreement — is something that we can say proudly, as Canada, we are able to do to show workers there is a path forward for them doing the right things.

What I did learn, more importantly, is that as Canadians, too often we talk at each other, not talk with each other. I think with the climate challenge that we face in this country, and as we face around the world, we’re going to have to find more ways to talk to each other about what we can all do to achieve this objective.

I think Senator Coyle’s climate change inquiry is about how we have more conversations across this country.

I’ve been fortunate in my history of working in the labour movement to have been to every corner of this great land of ours. I have never seen a place more beautiful in my entire life. I wish every Canadian would have the same opportunity I’ve had. I have met the wonderful people of this great country. All want to contribute to this, but we have to find a better way as to how to talk to each other to find a way to collaborate.

I know this is not an easy objective. In Alberta, they’re just about finished with their coal-fired generation. They’ve converted those facilities to gas as an interim measure, as they will continue to make other measures to deal with the challenges of how they generate electricity.

In Saskatchewan, they’re now embarking on that process. They will have to figure out how they get there, because coal-fired generation is the only way to generate electricity to a large extent to meet the needs of the people of Saskatchewan.

Nova Scotia and New Brunswick are likely to get some of Newfoundland’s power. They will be on stream very soon. It will help them get off of coal-fired generation. But it is only one step.

More importantly, what Senator Coyle’s inquiry is about is how we have these conversations as Canadians because in the context of the climate challenge, we in Canada have to show leadership on this. More importantly, if we are to meet our 2030 and 2050 goals, time is not on our side. We are going to have to move much faster.

I want to conclude, colleagues, by saying that, like many of you, we’re all wondering, every time we see a terrible storm that disrupts our community or a terrible forest fire that our colleagues in some part of this great land are struggling with, how we can avoid that. I know there may not be any answers. Senator Ravalia just talked about how we can work better with municipalities. Our municipalities are not fully equipped to deal with climate challenges. They were built at a time when the infrastructure didn’t envision what’s coming with storms. How do we revitalize them if we want to achieve the greater good of living in a society where we can actually meet our needs but also make sure our municipalities are going to remain vibrant to provide the services they do?

I want to conclude on a hopeful note. I may not be here on this planet for another hundred years. I know that for a fact. But my young daughter, who is now 14 and might inherit this great country as she grows up, keeps asking me, “Dad, is that animal likely to be around by the time I get to be your age?” I looked at her and I said, “I can’t say for certain.” That’s a terrible thing to tell a child. My parents didn’t tell me that. Why am I telling my child this?

The reality, colleagues, is we’re going to have to do better. As Canadians, we can do better. Some of the solutions being found to deal with the climate challenge are real, they’re in front of us. We’re going to have to invest more in them. Equally, we’re going to have to work harder with each other if we’re going to get there.

To conclude, I want to thank my friend for putting forward the great idea about an inquiry because it will allow us to talk to each other and hopefully find greater consensus to make this country an even better place. Thank you so much.

Senator Yussuff: Thank you for the question. Not only did I hear about it, I actually saw it first-hand in use. There is a cost associated with it. The technology does work but there is a cost associated with it.

It is true that carbon capture technology has evolved significantly since the development in Saskatchewan, and it’s being used in many parts of the world. I can’t speak about what China is going to do, but I know in Canada we can do better. The creation of this technological development shows the creativity in Canada, the many things we’re going to have to tackle and how we can come up with ideas and solutions.

I know for the most part that burning coal as a way to generate electricity may be something of the past, but the technology that was developed in Saskatchewan has much broader use not only here in Canada but throughout the world.

Others are learning from this. I was just in Norway and they’re going to use carbon capture technology to capture carbon in one place and they’re going to store it in the North Sea. That technology exists. The market is now supporting that to happen. Much has been learned from the great people of Saskatchewan in terms of what they did. I’m hopeful the next time I go back to Saskatchewan, which I promised to do next summer, to visit some of the communities that I was a part of; they have made much headway in the challenges they face in how they’re going to deal with the coal phase-out in the near future but also be able to continue to generate electricity to meet the needs of the people of Saskatchewan.

(On motion of Senator Clement, debate adjourned.)

Senator Yussuff: Yes.