Hon. Lucie Moncion: Thank you for being here in the Senate today. My question is about assistance for jury support organizations.

Organizations with a mission to provide support to jurors need funding to implement the recommendations set out in the 2018 report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in the other place, entitled Improving support for jurors in Canada.

The report takes into account jurisdictional issues that limit the support the federal government can provide. Federal funding for non-governmental entities is therefore a critical part of successfully moving this issue forward.

Could you tell us how your department supports these organizations?

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you for that question, senator, and I share the place from which that question comes.

As a government, we have committed to implementing the Calls to Action of the TRC. You have cited one of them. That one will require, in particular, work with the Minister of Health as we move forward, as well as cooperation with the provinces, which administer the criminal justice system across Canada as part of their constitutional responsibilities.

But I commit to being an active participant in the implementation of that as we move forward.

I will be honest that, for the time being, my goal is to get Bill C-5 over the finish line, which also responds to a TRC Call to Action regarding the overrepresentation of Indigenous people in the criminal justice system, to take one measure.

There are other measures that need to be taken, and I strongly feel that the question of fetal alcohol spectrum disorder will also be something that comes up both in the context of our elaboration of an Indigenous justice strategy and a Black justice strategy, and then in concert with the Minister of Health we can move forward.

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. I said at the committee, and I will repeat now for the whole of the Senate, that I think this is what is possible now. There are a number of mandatory minimum penalties which I think the vast majority of the Canadian public would not agree to repeal — sexual assault offences and sexual offences against children, for example, are things that I think the Canadian public would not accept — or there are other questions that would need to be addressed first. For example, in the North, we need to address housing quite badly before we can think about certain mandatory minimum penalties because there aren’t options for places to go that are safe. We have invested in shelters and that sort of thing in the North, but more work needs to be done. I sincerely believe this is where we are now.

Hon. Kim Pate: At the Legal Committee last week, you discussed with Senator Cotter the fact that every major sentencing law reform Indigenous inquiry has called for the repeal of all or at the very least this clause for structural discretion of the type that former Chief Justice McLachlin recommended in Lloyd, yet you have decided not to implement that. What is your government planning to do to remedy this situation? And have you considered a reference to the Supreme Court of Canada on this issue?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Minister, more than three years ago, Anne McLellan tabled a report about the SNC-Lavalin affair. Could you tell us where the government is in implementing her recommendations?

The Hon. the Speaker: Thank you, minister, but your time has expired.

[Translation]

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. As you will recall from my previous exchange, one of the main reasons is because we have more places to fill. We have created 116 new judicial positions since 2017. We created 27 in the last budget, plus 2 prothonotary positions.

We are working hard, and the JACs are working hard. We replace and replenish the JACs every couple of years, as is provided for in the system. We do that diligently. I appoint judges at a pretty rigorous and even pace, and we do that after a consultation process. I think you will hear positive feedback from across Canada with respect to the judges we’ve appointed.

I work hard with the bar associations across Canada and with other legal groups to encourage people to apply and to encourage people to apply to the JACs when those positions become open. The results speak for themselves: Since 2016, 55% of our appointments have been women, 12% have been visible minorities, 6% identify as LGBTQ2+ and 4% are Indigenous. Of them, 32% are functionally bilingual and another 13% can read in both languages. That’s more than some in our house.

The system is working well. We’ve built trust in the system, not only with judges but also with members of the communities that we’re targeting.

Hon. Paula Simons: Minister Lametti, in my home province of Alberta, the legal aid system is facing a crisis. Defence lawyers are refusing to take on new clients due to the concern that compensation for lawyers who work on these difficult cases has not kept pace with the cost of anything. This is causing backlogs throughout Alberta’s criminal justice system. Although legal aid is primarily funded by the province, there has been a tradition of federal backstop. Since Alberta is not alone in facing this crisis, has there been any consideration of doing something — more on a national scale — to ensure that the defendants and the accused are not losing the opportunity to have a full defence and to ensure that the criminal bar is receiving adequate compensation for what is often difficult work?

The Hon. the Speaker: I’m not sure there is a question there, Senator Duncan, but if you wish to respond to it, please do.

Senator Duncan: If I can offer a more fulsome response to you in writing, I’m happy to do that, but there is no reason why the other place could not study the very questions and report on the very questions. It’s a matter of getting the bill to them and having them address these issues as well.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

[Translation]

On Other Business, Senate Public Bills, Second Reading, Order No. 8:

Second reading of Bill S-226, An Act to amend the Constitution Act, 1867 and the Parliament of Canada Act (Speaker of the Senate).

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, we are now at the end of the Order Paper. May I suggest with leave that we suspend until 3 p.m. until the minister arrives and we continue then with Question Period? Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Ringuette: The PBO did a study of the cost effectiveness of this bill and established that the federal program would be less costly by $76.6 million. That means that there will be $76.6 million less going to unemployed citizens on the Island over five years. That is a concern to me. Has your committee received or reviewed the PBO report?

Senator Duncan: I will try to answer that question, but it’s not my committee; it is Senator Black’s Agriculture and Forestry Committee that reviewed this bill and amendment. With regard to the PBO report, yes, I’m aware of it and I’m aware of the differences. The issue for Islanders has always been the fairness of the situation, and the difference in receiving benefits in one area versus another is absolutely of concern. However, I again note the support for changing to one zone.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Good afternoon, minister. I will be speaking to you about the oversight of cannabis producers. Your Prime Minister justified the legalization of marijuana by saying it would undermine organized crime. However, police chiefs and even the RCMP believe that organized crime has hijacked the production of medical cannabis for its own benefit and that Health Canada has lost control of licences.

You are the Minister of Justice. I do not want you to shirk your responsibility by saying that this falls under the purview of Health Canada. We are talking about organized crime here. You are going to tell me that your duty is to protect citizens. What will you do to regain control of the situation?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Minister, you are a Montrealer like me. I am sure that you are hearing how concerned Montrealers are about the growing violence in our region. Shootings are on the rise. La Presse has determined that there is a shooting every three days. The police and the municipal and provincial governments are doing their best, but the Trudeau government has nothing but empty words to offer.

Minister, why do you want to reduce sentences for gang members? Is it because you think they have the right to earn a living with their criminal activities? When are you going to take action to stop the flow of illegal weapons from the United States, especially through Akwesasne?

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. Once again, this is an important question, but it exposes erroneous claims made by some members of the Conservative Party. Bill C-5 has nothing to do with gangs. It does not address drug and gang crime at all. In fact, Bill C-21 does the opposite: It increases maximum sentences for these crimes from 10 to 14 years. We are also prohibiting assault weapons, and Bill C-21 will put a freeze on handguns, which are obviously the weapons of choice for gang members.

I am a Montrealer too, senator, and these incidents affect me deeply. However, I can tell you that no government in Canada’s history has invested as heavily in securing our borders and fighting gangs. We’re working hand in hand with Quebec and the other provinces to combat gangs and gun trafficking. We will continue to do so, but Bill C-5 does not deal with that; it’s independent.

[English]

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: I read that report and I share your concern, and it is something that I will raise in the appropriate channels.

I can say that within the justice department we are moving in the right direction both in terms of — on the Attorney General side — implementing the litigation directive that my predecessor, the Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould, brought in and with respect to the policies that we develop at the justice level.

For example, with UNDRIP we have created a secretariat, and I can say that there is real enthusiasm within that secretariat — not to put it too bluntly — to right the wrongs of the past. I’m hoping that’s something we can expand across government.

I agree. I read the report. I was concerned in the same way that you’re concerned, and I will do my best to help change that.

[Translation]

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Still on the topic of organized crime taking advantage of gaps in the legislation, some Canadians are persistently trying to smuggle cannabis across the American border, so cannabis seizures have skyrocketed and seem to be out of control. The office of the Quebec Minister of Public Security said that it has informed your department of the situation several times, but it is still waiting for your response. Would I be wrong to think that, as with the handgun issue, your government is trying to shirk all responsibility by shifting it elsewhere, rather than engaging in a serious fight against organized crime?

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator, for your question. Obviously, I share your dedication to the cause. As for the timeline, it will be as soon as possible. The consultations will seek to determine what should be done. A parliamentary committee studied precisely that, but its answer was not necessarily well received by experts in the community. Understandably, we would simply like to ask the experts what they think of the committee’s report and what we should do to avoid unintended consequences. It is a final update, if you will. I know it will take a little bit longer, but the consultations will be done in partnership with the expert community.

[English]

Hon. David Richards: Thank you, minister, for being here. Minister, there have been a number of criminal investigations initiated over the last few years. One was over the coastal pipeline that suffered damages costing multi-millions of dollars. Another was about the burning of a dozen or more Catholic churches out West. Where do these investigations stand in the file? Are there still ongoing investigations, and can you give us an update on how they are proceeding?

Hon. David Lametti, P.C., M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada: Thank you, senator. With all respect, in Canada, the way we have divided up our system — and I congratulate the previous Conservative government for having done this, as I thought Minister Nicholson did a great job with it — is that the investigative function is undertaken by the place of jurisdiction, whether it be the RCMP or another police force. So those investigations would be undertaken independently by the police force of jurisdiction.

The prosecutorial function is then independently done by the Public Prosecution Service of Canada if it’s covered by the federal prosecution or — in most cases of criminal offences — by provincial prosecution services. Again, those are independent — and I think they should be independent — of the office of the Attorney General.

So I’m not in a position to comment on any of those questions, nor should I be, given the way our system has evolved. I quite frankly think the system as it currently stands is working reasonably well.