The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Klyne, if you have a question, could you please get to it?

Some Hon. Senators: Hear! Hear!

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for bringing this back to the chamber’s attention. Regrettably, I don’t have a response, but you do have my assurance that I will follow up and try to get one as quickly as I can.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Moncion, would you take a question?

Senator Moncion: Certainly.

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Senator Moncion, I am baffled by your remarks. With your background in banking, I thought your mathematical skills were more advanced. You spoke about productivity. Before the pandemic, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs met for four to six hours a week.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Boisvenu, do you have a question?

Senator Boniface: So much depends on the specifics of what they find and what they do. One important piece — and I mentioned it in my speech — is if it comes to the point of a criminal investigation, such as the one you refer to, that would normally be referred to a different area. The material would be held — the phone — and then they would send it over for an investigation, which would likely then go to the local police to lay the charge.

The distinction is what the device initially is looking for is regulatory contraventions under the regime of the customs legislation. I should have mentioned it at some other point, but they have 90 different pieces of legislation that are covered under the contraventions. The criminal piece is normally done by the local police service, so it would be a connection then. Then they do a criminal investigation that’s separate and apart from it. That’s normally how the process would work locally.

Hon. Yuen Pau Woo: Thank you, Senator Boniface. You just said that the standard used is higher than that used in the United States. That raises the question of the pre-clearance agreements that we have with the Americans and the changes to pre‑clearance that will be affected by this bill. Is there a need to negotiate with the Americans for this to happen?

Senator Lankin: I am also interested, Your Honour, in the question of transition. Because I don’t think it is just about getting more committees going. For example, one of the things that could be considered — in speaking with someone from the House of Commons, indicating that their particular caucus was returning to in-person sittings, with the exception of people who had health challenges; for example, someone who had a compromised immune system because they had been receiving treatment for cancer, let’s say. It would be recognized that there is a wise public health protection provision to allow them to continue to work and be productive and increase productivity or continue productivity, but to allow them to work remotely.

In a transition, when you come forward after June, you would have to — have there been discussions or would you undertake to lead discussions with the other leaders about provisions such as that? Under what circumstances could some individuals continue — where it is warranted — to work remotely and therefore not be docked in terms of attendance and participation or criticized because they are working from their home but nonetheless working?

Senator Boniface: The question you ask is so specific that I would request that you ask it of the CBSA officers when they come before us. In fairness, I have not stood in their shoes to know exactly the step-by-step process. For me, that is how I best understand it. I would suggest that you put the question on the step-by-step process. You raise a fair question in terms of to what extent they have to inform. I think that when you learn how they walk through it in practice, that might be much better than any answer I could give you.

Senator Wells: Thank you.

Your Honour, I have more questions, but I will cede the floor.

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: When you talk about the challenge of getting it right in terms of legal issues surrounding Indigenous people, it has always been — and continues to be — problematic, especially with racial profiling. To me, 27% finding contraband is very low. How long will the guards have to search for these sites that are often super-encrypted? If we are going to be fair, don’t you think it should apply to all Canadians?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Woo, bill referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce.)

Hon. Frances Lankin: Honourable senators, I have a point of order.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Question? We have 30 seconds.

Senator Lankin: You said that with a question mark at the end, a note of surprise, Your Honour.

Honourable senators, in anticipation of the possibility or probability that we will be returning in person next week, I want to raise the question that relates to our rules about where people must be seated and where they must be in their seats or in their space if they are going to be speaking at all.

In preparation for how we would handle sittings during COVID — and we ended up with the hybrid model — there was consideration of how we maintained physical distancing, and that included suggestions of having senators seated in the galleries. I know that the Speaker can open up the galleries to the public or close them to the public and that could be accommodated, but our rules stand in the way of that potentially happening.

I mentioned earlier in a question about our colleagues who, for example, may be extremely immunocompromised, having undergone treatment for cancer, for instance, or who have a family member who comes down with COVID and they must also isolate themselves for a period of time.

I come to this with my experience from an Ontario jurisdiction with women’s legislation and right to know about dangers. I’m wondering how those colleagues will feel about coming back if they must sit shoulder to shoulder.

I have to admit that I am one of these people. I’m here and I participate in Ottawa, but I have a husband who is extremely immunocompromised. If I have space and I take all of the precautions that I do in all aspects of my life, I can be comfortable. If not, I can’t.

Those people who are perhaps in a situation more serious and significant than mine will be denied the opportunity to participate in the business of this chamber if they feel that they can’t be corralled into a space where there’s no physical distancing. I’m concerned about that, and I realize that in order to accommodate that it will involve some order of this chamber because it involves the actual rules about being at your seat when you’re speaking.

I raise this as a point of order knowing that, Your Honour, this is something that would normally be discussed with the Speaker. Maybe in saying this the leadership group will hear it, but I believe it’s a significant problem and it’s a significant challenge for senators to exercise their privilege and right of being here and participating if we don’t have those kinds of measures in place.

While you may not be able to rule on a mandatory process and we have to come back to this chamber to deal with — I leave that with you for consideration and for the consideration by my colleagues in this chamber.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, I want to thank Senator Lankin for raising this very important issue that needs to be discussed and needs to be managed in order for all senators present to abide by the distancing, masks when sitting and when speaking and the space to accommodate.

I thank you again. I will bring this to the attention of the Speaker because this is an urgent matter that needs to be resolved before our sitting next week. Thank you.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate and notwithstanding rule 5-5(j), I move:

That, when the Senate next adjourns after the adoption of this motion, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, May 3, 2022, at 2 p.m.