Senator Plett: “Only” 200.

Senator Plett: We’ll be nice. We’ll stop pretty soon.

Senator Plett: “Only a few hundred,” you say. You have said that a number of times today, like these 200 people are insignificant.

There were only a few — a very, very few — people in Ottawa at any time that were flying a Confederate flag or possibly promoting a swastika. Only a very, very few. And yet, you have constantly, leader, been referring to those few as being the “leaders of this movement.” It seems that when it serves your purpose, 200 people having their bank accounts frozen is somewhat insignificant, and it’s “only” 200. But if it’s only 2 or 5 or 10 out of hundreds of thousands of people that were part of this protest across the country, that is very significant. I find that strange.

Leader, the Prime Minister called these people a “fringe” group, called them “racist” and he called them “misogynistic,” from when they left Vancouver all the way through to here. That’s what they were. I find this so difficult, leader. I am wanting to give you the benefit of the doubt. I have, quite frankly, given up with the rest of the government, but I still would like to give you the benefit of the doubt that we still are living in a society where everybody’s views are appreciated and respected if they are not racist and, indeed, misogynistic. But just because Justin Trudeau says they are, doesn’t make it so, leader.

Clearly, I am not going to get a clear answer on that issue as we haven’t been getting very clear answers on many issues here today. I am going to ask you another question.

Senator Plett: Well, I will ask that, sir. Instead of me doing this every time somebody says something, I’ll keep on talking, and you can keep on interrupting and I will continue to talk.

And you can continue interrupting, too. I have no problem and I won’t do this.

As we deal with the Emergencies Act and its ramifications, I keep thinking about how our country got to this point, and I keep coming back to how this all started. It began with Canadians protesting — as is absolutely their right to do in any liberal democracy — the Trudeau government’s actions in dealing with COVID-19 and this government’s inability to follow the science and bring forward a plan to end the mandates.

Now, without question — you have said it, others have said it, and we all agree — we are tired. We fight amongst friends. We fight amongst families. We have differences of opinion. Some family members believe you should be vaccinated. Others believe there is a conspiracy theory. We all, I’m sure, every one of us, at least knows people, if they aren’t in your own families. So we are tired of that. We recognize that.

But that doesn’t make Canadians bad people when they say, “I’m tired of this. I’m tired of this government telling me what to do.”

Senator Gold, Canadians would like to understand what exactly the Trudeau government believes is the difference between a legal protest and an illegal protest. When did this protest become illegal? Was it when Justin Trudeau decided it was illegal? Senator McPhedran made a good point that for the longest time the trucks were held at bay. When did it become illegal? Was it when all of a sudden they moved the blockades and let trucks in? Who did that?

At what point does a legal protest become an illegal protest in the eyes of Justin Trudeau?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): I have a number of questions. I’ll ask one or two, as you allow, and I will ask to be put back on the list for questions later.

Senator Gold, you said the government had been very clear. The government has been anything but very clear. Yesterday, I asked you a straightforward question in Question Period about invoking the Emergencies Act. Instead of answering the question, you said you looked forward to answering it during Tuesday’s debate. So here is my second attempt, Senator Gold.

When the Prime Minister invoked the Emergencies Act, he claimed it would be geographically targeted. In the other place on Saturday, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice confirmed that the legislation applies to all of Canada.

Senator Gold, what guidelines did the Trudeau government use before making the call to declare a historic national emergency throughout our entire country? Do you have an answer to that question directly today, Senator Gold?

Senator Plett: I have one supplementary, if I could, Your Honour, but, as I said earlier, there are a lot of people who want to ask questions, so I’ll go on the list for a little later.

Senator Gold, you will excuse some of us if we just simply don’t believe the rhetoric that we are being given by the government both in the other place and here.

On Saturday, the Minister of Public Safety said at least 76 bank accounts had been frozen under the Emergencies Act. This action took place before the House of Commons and the Senate — before the House of Commons and the Senate — had the opportunity to weigh in on whether this instance of invoking the Emergencies Act is necessary.

Yesterday afternoon, David Akin of Global News reported new information he received from Public Safety Canada that 208 financial products have been frozen. Senator Gold, you referred to that in your speech as well, and you seem to think that is not really significant and that people can somehow get these unfrozen in due course. We all know it could take weeks and even months to get that done, and somebody cannot move; somebody cannot operate.

Leader, what are the specific guidelines, the very specific guidelines — not the government thinking somebody may have done something nefarious. What are the specific guidelines being used to determine if a bank account should be frozen? When we freeze the Mafia’s bank account, we have to get a court order; you can’t just freeze their bank account. When you have a murderer out on bail, you don’t freeze their bank account. We have people who are avoiding taxes; you don’t freeze their bank accounts without court orders.

So what are the specific guidelines or criteria that are being used to determine if a bank account should be frozen, as well as the guidelines or criteria being used to determine which type of accounts or financial products can be seized?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): That’s the nice thing about having a mask on, Senator Gold. You could not say that with a straight face, “with great pleasure.”

Senator Gold, earlier in answer to one of our colleague’s questions, you talked about having respect for other views and other opinions. I have worked together with you now for a few years, and I believe that. Your exchange with Senator Housakos earlier today, however, didn’t show that. It clearly showed that you had — I want to choose my words carefully — some disdain for partisan views that you didn’t share. I know you’re shaking your head, and if that isn’t true, I will accept that. However, if somebody just listened to the exchange, that wouldn’t seem to be how you feel.

Senator Gold, I’m going to quote for you an exchange that took place on CTV last Thursday night, where one of your colleagues from the other place showed his disdain for certain views. Evan Solomon asked the Minister of Justice:

A lot of folks said, look, I just don’t like your vaccine mandates, and I donated to this. Now it’s illegal. Should I be worried that the bank can freeze my account? What’s your answer to that?

Minister Lametti responded:

Well, I think if you are a member of a pro-Trump movement who is donating . . . to this kind of thing —

— not to Trump but “this type of thing” —

— then you ought to be worried.

Leader, in other words, if you hold an unacceptable view, you should be afraid that your bank account will be frozen is in essence what Minister Lametti said.

Now, you say that you believe in other people having views other than your own, and that’s acceptable. Can you tell us, Senator Gold, does the Prime Minister share your views? Does Minister Lametti share your views? Because his actions and his words would not indicate that. How can this comment from Minister Lametti be viewed as anything other than political retribution?

Senator Plett: That’s not the question. When did it become illegal? That’s the question.

Senator Plett: Honourable senators, let me, first of all, say thank you, Senator Gold, for continuing with this gruelling day that you have had. I do appreciate that. If His Honour and you will give me a little indulgence, I had two questions prepared, but I believe that Senator Dupuis’ question and your answer requires me to at least address that point as well. If you will allow me to ask a question there, as well as the two questions that I have prepared, then I will not ask any more questions today. I’m hoping that you, Senator Gold, will indulge me, and I am hoping His Honour will as well.

Senator Dupuis asked about a Committee of the Whole. Many years ago, a good friend in Montreal said, “Don, your fig leaf is getting a little small.” Although you tried very hard to walk the line, I would suggest that your answer could also be characterized in that way.

I am going to let Senator Dupuis know that it is Senator Don Plett who wasn’t prepared to give leave. You didn’t want to say that, but I will say that.

I will also say that I offered — and because it was I who offered, both inside and outside of our meeting, I think I can say that — that we would be very happy if we could have both sides presented at a Committee of the Whole, which is not uncommon for committees to have. When we have committee meetings, colleagues, we ask proponents of the legislation to come forward, which is typically ministers and their people, and then we have alternative witnesses come forward who are opposed to the legislation.

This has also been done at Committee of the Whole. For all of our colleagues who are thinking that we did not want to hear the ministers — well, no, I didn’t because, quite frankly, I heard their speaking points. Be that as it may, we were prepared to listen to them, but we also wanted the contrarian opinion. We wanted the Canadian Civil Liberties Association to come and tell us why they thought this was very bad legislation. I don’t think that was an unreasonable request, colleagues.

I want to be on the record saying that, and I am sure Senator Gold would have liked to have said that, had he believed he could do that without breaking a confidence. I will simply leave it at that. We did support a Committee of the Whole under different circumstances.

I will now ask my two questions, honourable senators. Much to the happiness of everyone here, I am sure, I will not ask any more questions. However, I will regale you all; and if you give me a hard time now, my speech will be a little bit longer. Remember, I also have unlimited time to speak and I may well take all of it, so be prepared.

Senator Gold, you may have touched on the issue of the blockade at the Canada-U.S. border in Coutts, Alberta, but you did not answer this question: The border in Coutts, Alberta, was dealt with through existing laws and resources, not through government overreach of the Emergencies Act. The Alberta Minister of Municipal Affairs said that the Alberta RCMP were supported by additional personnel transferred from the B.C. RCMP and that the Government of Alberta procured the necessary heavy equipment to remove commercial vehicles.

The resolution of the Coutts blockade came about through traditional, conventional policing. Thirteen people were arrested and serious charges were laid — among them, conspiracy to commit murder. Many others left the blockade without incident.

In Emerson, Manitoba, the RCMP negotiated with protesters at the border to open the border so that livestock trailers could come through. They then negotiated that other vehicles could go 30 minutes out of their way to a different border crossing and cross. Although it was inconvenient, it worked. No violence, no shutdown, because people talked to people and they worked their way through it.

Leader, why does the Trudeau government believe that the trucker convoy in Ottawa rises to the level of a national public order emergency when the Coutts and Emerson blockades were resolved through traditional, conventional policing?

Senator Plett: Well, we will leave it at that.

Last Monday, leader, when the Prime Minister announced that he would invoke the Emergencies Act, he repeatedly said those powers would be time limited. He said that numerous times.

Just a few days later, the Trudeau government reversed itself entirely. When it comes to their new financial surveillance powers, in a press conference, Minister Freeland stated:

We will be putting forward measures to put those tools permanently in place. The authorities of FINTRAC, I believe, do need to be expanded to cover crowdsourcing platforms and payment platform and their payment providers. So that is something that we need to do and we will do and that needs to be in place permanently.

Leader, on Monday this power was brought forward as a time‑limited act, and by Friday it was permanent.

My question, leader, is this: How and when does the Trudeau government intend to make this financial surveillance power permanent? Will it be bundled into an expected budget implementation act later this spring to be voted on as a confidence measure?

As was clearly the case with the motion before the other place tonight, leader, numerous times today you have referred to one of the opposition parties supporting the government. You failed to mention that the Prime Minister — and I’ll call it a threat — threatened everyone with this being a confidence vote: If you don’t support this, we’re in an election. Is that what he is planning on doing again or will they be brought forward in stand‑alone legislation?