Senator Boisvenu: Senator, to lend credibility to your arguments and to this bill, when stating that the majority of Canadians are in favour of a given measure, should you not be citing the study, author and page where these facts are found?

[English]

Senator Boisvenu: The Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces recently requested that he no longer report to the Minister of National Defence in order to ensure independence in dealing with the complaints he receives. The Office of the Correctional Investigator also reports to Parliament, and therefore to the Minister of Public Safety, in order to maintain its independence. However, the Office of the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime reports to the Minister of Justice and depends on that minister’s goodwill to continue operating.

Senator Gold, will the government ensure that the two positions — the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime and the Ombudsman for the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces — are put on an equal footing, by having the Office of the Federal Ombudsman for Victims of Crime report to the House of Commons rather than the Minister of Justice?

Senator Moodie: Senator Boisvenu, I’m referring to past studies — and I’m not going to be specific because I don’t have it in front of me but I can get back to you — that have been done polling Canadians on this matter and that have gathered this information. I can find out that information and send it to you. It’s not here on my sheet of paper.

[Translation]

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Senator, you used the word “torture” several times. Do you have an idea of the number of complaints the Correctional Investigator has received about torture in prisons, in federal penitentiaries, and do you know how many of these complaints were founded?

[English]

Senator Pate: The use of “torture” comes from the international UN rules on the treatment of prisoners and from the special rapporteur on torture and detention. That definition is one that the courts have then used — the 15-day limit, as anything beyond that can amount to torture. Yes, there have been complaints put in through the Correctional Service of Canada. I do not have the exact number at my fingertips. I do know that the Correctional Investigator of Canada has investigated many. I do know that when Dr. Doob — who was actually the chair of the minister’s advisory committee to review these structured intervention units — couldn’t even get the data himself nor could other members of the committee, and when they did finally get data and saw just how many times — and I mentioned the number of times, I think it was 49 or more — people were held for six times the 15-day limit that was put in place, even then corrections tried to say that in fact their documentation was problematic. So part of the challenge — and I think it’s something that all of us would be interested in seeing — is how to actually hold accountable the Correctional Service of Canada to do the job it’s supposed to do. With almost one-to-one employees per prisoner, presumably we’d see a lot more of that information being made available in a more transparent and accountable way.

[Translation]