Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: We’ve been working very hard to create opportunities and working with the Indigenous communities to launch their own fisheries in lobster, crab and other species, and I’ve been very pleased at the evolution of these measures to respect treaty rights and the importance of having the opportunity to be part of the fishery on the part of the First Nations.

I’m going to continue to work towards that further allocation of opportunities for First Nations. Of course, conservation is very important, and that’s why we have compliance and enforcement doing their work. Non-Indigenous and Indigenous alike, we need fish harvesters to respect the rules so that we don’t overfish the stock and create problems down the road.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: Madam Minister, despite agreements with the majority of Indigenous communities, during the 2022 lobster fishery in Nova Scotia, lobsters trapped by Indigenous individuals and sold illegally were seized. Boats and traps were seized as well, but there seems to be ongoing tension between commercial fishers and some Indigenous groups.

Can you tell us what measures have been taken for the upcoming fishing season? Have you hired more staff to monitor the fishing areas and intervene faster? Can you tell us if First Nations fishers still have the right to fish in the off-season?

[English]

Hon. Colin Deacon: Thank you, Minister Murray, for being with us today in the Senate. Minister, a significant portion of your department’s priorities and goals, including commitments under the Oceans Protection Plan, fall under the control of Transport Canada. Considering this, Canadians would reasonably expect horizontal collaboration across government — that’s not always the case. Some of us in this chamber have encountered challenges where Transport Canada is the lead department on priorities that it shares with DFO and Environment and Climate Change Canada, or ECCC. One example is the lack of action on implementing Canada’s 30-year-old commitment to the International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships, or MARPOL, to prevent Maritime pollution from bilge water and petroleum waste in our coastal and inland waters — something that affects both of our home provinces: Nova Scotia and British Columbia.

Minister Murray, how do we begin to overcome the lack of horizontality as it relates to the whole-of-government priorities, like protecting our environment?

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: It’s unfortunate that the CCGS Alfred Needler was not able to serve out its expected vessel life. The best available science is important to our allocation of catch in the fisheries. There are other sources of science that we will be using. As I mentioned before, the fishing information about where and how much of the stock has been caught provides data. We work with Indigenous communities on their science and data, as well as the fish harvesters, and we will make sure that we have data to base our decision on. Of course, the stronger the data, the higher the allocation we can make.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you for that question. I would contest, really, the characterization that we don’t have any data. The ministry is very committed to working from the best available science. There are sometimes reversals that make it difficult to do everything that we would like to do, but we have a very committed set of ministry officials who are working with the harvest community in most cases to develop robust data that is complemented, of course, by the trawl surveys. There are other sources of data that they feed into the algorithms as well, and we will always do our very best to have good-quality data that is done in a way that we can count on.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, we welcome today the Honourable Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, to ask questions relating to her ministerial responsibilities.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, we welcome today the Honourable Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard, to ask questions relating to her ministerial responsibilities.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the Senate on December 7, 2021, senators do not need to stand. Questions are limited to one minute and responses to one-and-a-half minutes. The reading clerk will stand 10 seconds before the expiry of these times. Question Period will last one hour.

Hon. Joyce Murray, P.C., M.P., Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard: Thank you, senator, for that question. I won’t speak to what has happened in the past, but I will say that it is our government’s strong commitment to respect the moderate livelihood fisheries rights of the Mi’kmaq people. To that end, we have had a number of initiatives that have enabled us to ensure that those communities have access to training, to equipment and to allowable catch so that this treaty obligation can be honoured.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate), pursuant to notice of February 16, 2023, moved:

That the Standing Senate Committee on National Finance be authorized to examine and report upon the expenditures set out in the Main Estimates for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2024; and

That, for the purpose of this study, the committee have the power to meet, even though the Senate may then be sitting or adjourned, and that rules 12-18(1) and 12-18(2) be suspended in relation thereto.

Hon. Michael L. MacDonald: Minister, you mentioned the importance of the process known as comparative fishing. I find that interesting. The Coast Guard just decommissioned the CCGS Alfred Needler in February — five months earlier than scheduled. I’m very familiar with this vessel because my now-retired brother-in-law was the long-time captain of that ship. The CCGS Alfred Needler was expected to bring two vessels into service through the process known as comparative fishing when the new vessels trawl side by side. How do you intend to do that now when the CCGS Alfred Needler has been decommissioned before the new vessels come on stream?

Hon. Pamela Wallin moved:

That the fifth report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Commerce and the Economy, tabled in the Senate on Wednesday, February 15, 2023, be adopted and that, pursuant to rule 12-24(1), the Senate request a complete and detailed response from the government, with the Minister of Finance being identified as minister responsible for responding to the report.

She said: Honourable senators, the tabling of this report was very timely because our country is going through a period of rapid inflation, with drastic rises in the cost of living, and our report shines a light on the series of decisions and circumstances that led us here and how we can do better to avoid this in the future. The testimony from various economists and from the Governor of the Bank of Canada himself has put into sharp relief that the state of our economy is troubling, and concerning what should be done in the future. We as a committee put in a great amount of time and work on this file, and therefore, that is why we hope the decision makers will take serious note and respond. Thank you.

Hon. David M. Wells: Minister Murray, as you’re aware, lost, abandoned and discarded fishing gear, also known as ghost gear, is the number one type of marine debris in the world. Last summer, I recognize the government invested an additional $10 million in funding towards the Ghost Gear Fund to help remove thousands of units of ghost gear from our waters.

Hon. David M. Wells: Minister Murray, as you’re aware, lost, abandoned and discarded fishing gear, also known as ghost gear, is the number one type of marine debris in the world. Last summer, I recognize the government invested an additional $10 million in funding towards the Ghost Gear Fund to help remove thousands of units of ghost gear from our waters.

Minister, with the changing climate, this is not enough. With the stronger seas and annual ice conditions that damage fixed and mobile gear, will the government invest even more for the identification and removal of the increasing volumes of ghost gear?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the third time?

(On motion of Senator Kutcher, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for third reading at the next sitting of the Senate.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Harder, P.C., seconded by the Honourable Senator Bellemare, for the second reading of Bill C-18, An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Minister, we have to move to the next question.

Hon. Stan Kutcher: Minister, thank you for being with us today. My question is on the Canadian Coast Guard and its decarbonization efforts. I understand that there are currently a number of different initiatives on this issue under way, such as a biodiesel testing project and construction of a hybrid electric vessel.

Would you please update us on these efforts and share with us if there are any additional plans for decarbonization efforts within the Canadian Coast Guard?

Hon. Patricia Bovey: Welcome, minister. As Senator Coyle has said, the High Seas Treaty agreed to last week at the UN is an historic step in protecting the world’s oceans.

Canada has much experience in this. For example, we have upped the protected areas along our coasts. We have taken a leading role in the 1994 Convention on the Law of the Sea and the Sargasso Sea Commission. I have been hearing that many countries are looking to us to take a lead on this agreement as well. How do you see Canada becoming a leader in seeing that this treaty accomplishes its goals?

Hon. Mary Coyle: Welcome, Minister Murray. This weekend, at the UN’s Intergovernmental Conference on Marine Biodiversity of Areas Beyond National Jurisdiction, countries agreed to a new treaty to protect ocean biodiversity in the high seas. The agreement will be key to achieving the goal to protect 30% of the world’s oceans set in the global biodiversity framework.

The new High Seas Treaty creates a framework for establishing marine protected areas, and conducting environmental impact assessments in ocean areas beyond national jurisdictions. We know this was no easy feat.

This important agreement still needs to be formally adopted and ratified. Minister Murray, could you tell us what the next steps are internationally with this agreement? When could we expect the Government of Canada to ratify this High Seas Treaty?

Senator Bellemare: Yes.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Candies Kotchapaw, Angelica Johnson Baptista and Danisha Decius from the Black Diplomats Academy. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Bernard.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Candies Kotchapaw, Angelica Johnson Baptista and Danisha Decius from the Black Diplomats Academy. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Bernard.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Raymonde Gagné (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate, I move:

That the sitting be suspended, to resume at the later of 8 p.m., after a 15-minute bell, or the call of the chair, after a 5-minute bell.