Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Senator Marshall: Yes, please.

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those in favour of the motion will please say “yea.”

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those opposed to the motion, please say “nay.”

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

Senator Marshall: Like I say, the government will cherry-pick. The net debt takes into consideration the assets of the Canada Pension Plan and, I think, the Quebec Pension Plan.

I think there is room there. The government can move numbers around to make it look best. I would go with the gross debt. However, I have to say, senator, that I would look at a number of indicators. I think you mentioned, “of the G7.” Well, that’s only a few countries. There are a lot of other high-income countries that we could compare ourselves to.

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Yes, the government always cherry-picks, and we need to use our own minds and come up with our own conclusions.

The Hon. the Speaker: All those in favour of the motion will please say “yea.”

Senator Downe: Yes, obviously, we have the same reading list because I read that report as well. In regard to those reports — colleagues should understand this — the government made a commitment in the last election on the tax gap, and the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA, is, in my opinion, very slowly doing piecemeal work; that was on the underground economy. They have done a couple of others. What we need is an overall tax gap analysis.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer has requested data from the CRA — not individual names of any Canadians, but just the raw data — and he can estimate an independent tax gap analysis. The CRA has refused to provide that information, and we know, for a host of reasons, that the information provided by the CRA on a number of things has been wrong.

My question is as follows: Is the Finance Committee questioning the CRA as to why they are not cooperating with the Parliamentary Budget Officer — who has asked for that information so that he can tell all Canadians what the real tax gap is?

Hon. Frances Lankin: Will the senator take a question?

Hon. Percy E. Downe: Thank you colleagues, and thank you Senator Marshall for your presentation.

I’m wondering if you could advise us if there is an update regarding the Canada Revenue Agency’s continuous refusal to estimate the tax gap — the difference between what we should be collecting and what we are collecting; that is one measurement.

The second measurement tells you how efficient your national tax agency is. As you know, six years ago, the Conference Board of Canada, in a public document, indicated that the tax gap shortfall could be up to $47 billion. We all realize that it’s impossible for the agency to collect all of that, but if they collected half of that, it would solve a lot of problems in this country.

Do you have any update on how that’s going?

Senator Marshall: Yes.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, senator.

The Government of Canada is deeply concerned about the legislation approved by the Ugandan parliament last week.

As you know, both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs strongly and immediately condemned this bill on March 22. The bill seeks to broadly violate the human rights and fundamental freedoms of Uganda’s LGBTQ2+ community. That is unacceptable.

The government stands with the LGBTQ+ community in Uganda and around the world and is calling on the government of Uganda to repeal that law. I would like to add that Canada unequivocally opposes the use of the death penalty in all cases, everywhere. This form of punishment is inconsistent with human rights and human dignity.

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Some Hon. Senators: Yes.

An Hon. Senator: Thirty minutes.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do we have agreement on the bell?