Senator Gold: Senator Wallin, I appreciate your question very much. I answered it as best I could in the speech. I’m not going to reread it. The amendment, according to the government and according to the majority of the members of the House of Commons, did not achieve its objectives and poses a risk of undermining the central objectives of the act.

This was much debated in the committee and debated in the Senate. The Senate passed the amendment. The House respectfully disagrees. I’ve tried to provide the reasons why the House disagrees.

I’ve also tried to provide reasons which I know you will take seriously. Whether you agree with me or not, that’s your prerogative. Notwithstanding this disagreement, notwithstanding your disappointment or the fact that you do not necessarily find my answers compelling, we will agree to disagree and to pass this important bill for the benefit of the Canadian cultural community and Canadians in general.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do you have a question?

Senator Cardozo: Yes. My question is this։ Given that we don’t know everything about the technology that will roll out year by year, is this not the better way to do it? Should we not leave it to the CRTC to deal with those details and update those regulations every few years?

Senator Quinn: Senator Gold, really the focus of my comment is that all of the inputs received, et cetera, from people across the country — people who have appeared before the committee, people who have not appeared before the committee but have communicated with senators, across the spectrum — deserve to hear more directly than the normal process. You’re right: There are all kinds of things that are published and put on websites and whatnot, but the people who have been communicating with us may not be the people who deal with these issues in that format, if you can understand what I’m saying. They’re not used to the legislative process.

Should the government not have a proactive strategy to communicate with those people who have made their views on proposed section 4.2 explicitly known?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Not to belabour the point, but user-generated content is definitely scoped into this bill. That was the opinion of the chairman of the CRTC when he testified before our committee. That was the opinion of the legal expert of Heritage Canada who, on numerous occasions, was asked directly about the language that Senator Cardozo referred to. It is clear that the government is refusing to tighten that language and accept reasonable amendments that state, in black and white in law, that user-generated content will be excluded. Nonetheless, I also want to correct a couple of things.

In his exchange with you, Senator Gold, Senator Cardozo highlighted really what the problem is between those who are fine with the bill and those who are against the bill. I know that the CRTC has the authority to make regulations because the law that we’re about to pass and the government wants to pass is giving that authority. In the old Broadcasting Act and the current Broadcasting Act, our colleague Senator Cardozo is right: The government and Canadian Heritage can not only influence the regulatory framework; they can give directives and overrule the CRTC. That’s precisely why when you have laws like the Broadcasting Act that leave this Parliament and become law, there have to be safeguards to make sure whoever is in government has parameters that they have to work within that we parliamentarians give them. And if we’re negligent in our responsibility in making laws that are clear, that’s when, of course, problems can occur.

Now, in terms of the regulatory framework, it is so customary on bills that are technical — like Bill C-11 — for governments to attach regulatory frameworks in advance. With Bill C-10, the precursor bill of Bill C-11, if you remember, at the final stages of that bill, under a lot of pressure from work in this chamber, the government came out with a framework at that particular point in time. It wasn’t a very good one, but they came up with a framework. It doesn’t require tossing it to the CRTC for two years.

But I don’t want to digress. I want to get to my follow-up question because there are a lot more problems with this bill than just user-generated content.

When we’re reforming the Broadcasting Act, one of the main pillars that needs to be reformed, which was not even looked at in this bill, is CanCon. My question to you, government leader, is the following: How could a story written by Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid’s Tale, with Canadian actors, filmed in Canada, with a Canadian director and so on and so forth — how could something like that, in the eyes of this current bill as we want to pass it, not qualify as Canadian content?

Senator Housakos: We tried to move amendments at committee dealing with Canadian content, and they were rejected. They were rejected and, by the same token, it’s part of the parliamentary process. Now, again, if you don’t want to answer the question, it speaks volumes, government leader, how the government is negligent in doing an in-depth dive on dealing with Canadian broadcasting.

Senator Gold: Thank you, Senator Wallin. We know this. The Charter itself, in section 1, provides that rights and freedoms that are set out, and otherwise given an expansive interpretation at first blush, are subject to “such reasonable limits . . . as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.” For the Attorney General to remind senators and legislators, all of whom have an obligation to understand and apply the Charter in our own work, is simply — if I can paraphrase the late, great Alan Borovoy, the former general counsel of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, and a mentor and friend to me — “a penetrating glimpse into the obvious.”

Yes, rights are not absolute. They’re balanced against other rights, and they’re subject to reasonable limits. Our statute books are full of examples of this kind.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: It was moved by the Honourable Senator Pate, seconded by the Honourable Senator Dean, that this bill be read the second time.

Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of the following Members of Parliament: Anju Dhillion, Pam Damoff and Ya’ara Saks. With them are representatives of women’s shelters in Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Dalphond.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Boisvenu: Yes. Quebec passed Bill 24. At the federal level, a Liberal member was able to get the House to pass Bill C-233, which deals with domestic violence. In his speech, Senator Dalphond pointed out that not one of the 800 women in Spain wearing an electronic bracelet was murdered.

Had this bill been passed five or ten years ago, had it saved one, two, five or ten women from a violent death by an intimate partner, would this bill have been worthwhile?

[English]

Senator Boisvenu: I have another question.

[English]

Senator Boisvenu: Senator Pate, at this time the Criminal Code only provides for the use of an electronic bracelet in two circumstances: cases of terrorism and cases where an individual has committed a fairly serious crime and there’s a concern that they will flee the country. The Criminal Code doesn’t authorize the use of an electronic bracelet in any other case.

Wouldn’t you agree that we must expand the Criminal Code to include violent men if we know they would commit murder or endanger the life of their spouse or former spouse? Should the Criminal Code be amended to include another case in addition to the two types of cases I mentioned?

[English]

Senator Pate: I am not sure if this was your question, but I agree with you.

Too often, when women come forward and talk about the violence that is a very real threat for them, they know, because they live it — it is a very real threat — it is not believed. That is the crux, in my humble opinion, as to why you and all of us are continuing to try and move on these issues. It is not the fact that it is not a violent offence. It is the fact that it is brought down to a he-said-she-said situation. The violence is minimized. The woman isn’t believed. There are racial reasons why. There are gendered reasons why. There are economic reasons why. I do not think that that is fair. I do not agree with that, but that is fundamentally why these tools are not used, because they are violent offences, and who knows better than the person who is experiencing the violence, as we both know from the many, many people — too many people — whom we have walked with and too many of whom are no longer with us.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Honourable senators, as a friendly critic of this legislation, not only am I rising to express my unreserved support for this bill, but, in so doing, I also promise not to take up the full 45 minutes of my allotted time.

I’ll start by thanking the sponsor, Senator Jane Cordy, for bringing this legislation forward, and for all of her hard work, and that of her team, in getting it to this point.

The vast majority of Lebanese immigrants came to Canada between the years of 1975 and 1990. They were fleeing the Lebanese Civil War, which drives home the point that so many immigrants have come to this country fleeing desperate situations in their homeland. They’ve come here seeking freedom, peace, opportunity and prosperity.

Like every single Canadian — arriving directly or indirectly — who has been here for years, we’ve come here fleeing either civil war or economic hardship, looking for freedom and opportunity. Of course, that is what this great country has offered to immigrants for decades and decades.

But Canada’s Lebanese communities date back much further than that. There are some who can trace their roots all the way back to the first influx of Lebanese immigrants who came through Halifax’s Pier 21 in 1880.

My own parents came through Halifax in the late 1950s, seeking refuge from a beautiful homeland but, nonetheless, one that was ravaged by civil war, economic hardship and the devastations of World War II. They came here with the dream of a better future for themselves and their children. They achieved that through hard work and perseverance.

I remember saying to my parents — and my mother, in particular, who is no longer with us; God rest her soul — “You left your country at the age of 17, and travelled halfway around the world. Many years later, what are your thoughts about your decision?” My mother said, “I’ll never trade that decision for anything in the world, and I’ll never trade this country. As a young woman in my country, I worked extremely hard; and the harder I worked, the more I remained standing in the same place. The future seemed bleak. I came to Canada with one dream: following the rules and laws and working hard. The harder I worked, the further I got.”

That is what Canada is all about to all the immigrants whom we have embraced. Of course, the Lebanese community is just one of the sums of all the parts of this great country. Like many immigrant groups, they came to this country, worked hard and contributed to the fibre of our country — they have done so culturally in terms of the wonderful Mediterranean cuisine that we all enjoy, and that has emulsified into Canadian cuisine. It doesn’t matter whether you’re Asian, South Asian, Greek, Italian, Irish or French; you put it all together, and that’s what Canada represents — the best of all that the world has to offer.

The Lebanese community has excelled as entrepreneurs. We’ve seen this from coast to coast to coast. They have added to the cultural fabric of this country. Many who fled Lebanon came to this country already being officially bilingual — they didn’t need to enrol in the French immersion program — and they blended into that fibre in terms of our bilingualism. The Lebanese community is vibrant in Halifax — in English.

[Translation]

The Lebanese community is also vibrant in Montreal — in French. It is a minority community, but one that is well integrated into Quebec, in French.

[English]

In Canada, we have many examples of members of the Lebanese community who have excelled in all walks of life. In athletics, Nazem Kadri is an NHL hockey player and Stanley Cup champion; and Marwan Hage is a Grey Cup champion who played for the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. There have been many politicians of Lebanese descent. The former premier of Prince Edward Island, Joe Ghiz, was such a good premier that, years later, they elected his son as premier.

In the Parliament of Canada, in our own chamber, Senator Pierre De Bané was one of those giants from whom I learned about how to do my job in the upper chamber. Ziad Aboultaif is a Conservative member of Parliament from Alberta. Lena Metlege Diab is a Liberal member of Parliament from Nova Scotia. Fayçal El-Khoury is the Liberal Member of Parliament for Laval—Les Îles. There are so many others, including Kevin O’Leary — we can go on and on. We all recognize their great contributions.

I thank Senator Cordy for moving this bill — it is important. Some will make the argument that we already have too many heritage months and too many days, and pretty soon we’re going to run out of days. Senator Plett and I have had a couple of debates on this in private. I am of the view that our institution has to represent all the sums of our country, and we have to celebrate the contributions of every single group. If we have a multiple number of celebrations on a multiple number of days, so be it. At the end of the day, we, as parliamentarians, have to recognize and celebrate our diversity. That’s what being Canadian is all about. That is why I wholeheartedly support this initiative by Senator Cordy, and I hope that we provide it with unanimous support. Thank you, colleagues.

Senator Dupuis: Thank you for your speech, Senator Dalphond. My question has to do with the preamble of this bill, which refers to the fact that the sterilization of persons without their consent is a legacy of systemic discrimination. Can you invite the members of the committee who are going to study the bill to look at the practical ways in which the systemic aspect of this discrimination will be dealt with since we are talking about individual procedures being carried out by doctors —

Hon. Leo Housakos: I’d like to adjourn the debate in my name.

Hon. Leo Housakos: It’s not we who are impugning the Prime Minister’s integrity, government leader; it’s his lack of action on a very serious subject that is calling into question his integrity and judgment.

Senator Gold, news broke yesterday that the FBI arrested two people who were operating a secret police station in New York City on behalf of the communist regime in Beijing. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the two individuals conspired to work as agents of the Chinese Communist Party and took orders from the regime in order to track down and silence Chinese dissidents living in the United States.

Senator Gold, we know that we have several of those clandestine police stations also operating right here in Canada in violation of Canadian sovereignty and Canadian law. As a matter of fact, one of the individuals arrested by the FBI yesterday had photos on his phone of one of those illegal stations operating right here in Canada.

Senator Gold, do we know if this individual was here in Canada? Has the RCMP taken steps to question this individual in connection to the stations in Canada? Also, can you tell me why no charges have been laid yet in any of these Canadian cases? Was anyone expelled from Canada as a result of our investigation? Have there been any consequences against the communist operatives who are undertaking similar efforts right here in Canada?

Senator Housakos: You are right, government leader: There were many questions in my question. The reason for that is because the questions keep piling up because we’re not getting any concrete answers, just like I didn’t get any in that answer just now.

Senator Gold, part of the allegations against the two individuals is that they targeted Falun Gong, for instance, by rounding up members of the Chinese diaspora and busing them to various locations to counter-protests for Falun Gong demonstrations, with the Chinese consulate paying each of those individuals $60.

That sounds eerily familiar to what is alleged to have taken place at a certain Liberal nomination meeting, doesn’t it?

Other allegations are the previously mentioned two operatives would track down Chinese dissidents living in the U.S. and threaten them and their families in order to force them to return to China to be arrested by communist authorities there. Again, that is exactly in line with what we’ve heard from Canadians of Chinese descent.

So why, Senator Gold, is your government not moving to do more to protect such people here in Canada? You say you don’t want the diaspora communities to feel afraid. The Prime Minister has said that on many occasions. They are already afraid, and your government is doing nothing about it. You’re more concerned about protecting the very people that Canadians of Chinese descent are afraid of.

When will this Prime Minister stop vacillating on the question of foreign influence from Beijing?

Hon. Mary Coyle: Senator Gold, as you know, today is a very sad anniversary for all Canadians. Three years ago today, Canada’s worst mass shooting occurred in my home province of Nova Scotia, senselessly ending the lives of 22 innocent people, including a highly competent and valued member of the RCMP, Heidi Stevenson, from my hometown of Antigonish.

You will recall that not long after the initial shock of that tragedy, several of us representing our province in this chamber called upon the provincial and federal governments to launch a full inquiry. The recommendations of that inquiry, recently published in the final report of the Mass Casualty Commission, call for substantive and systematic reform of the RCMP in order to prevent more of the kind of devastating tragedies that we witnessed in Nova Scotia in April 2020.

Of the commission’s 130 recommendations, over 60 were directed at the RCMP. The message from the commissioner says:

The future of the RCMP and of provincial policing requires focused re-evaluation. We need to rethink the role of the police in a wider ecosystem of public safety. . . .

The message goes on to say:

Most important, the RCMP must finally undergo the fundamental change called for in so many previous reports. . . .

In recognition of that imperative, Senator Harder has introduced his Senate inquiry on the role and mandate of the RCMP.

Senator Gold, could you tell us how and when the government plans to respond to the calls to action of the Mass Casualty Commission for major reforms of the RCMP? Concern has been raised that it’s unrealistic to expect the RCMP themselves to lead that reform.