Senator Plett: Well, I find it strange. He is your parliamentary secretary, and you don’t know about claims that he has made.

Senator Woo: Thank you for the explanation. An expansion of an exemption is another word for a carve out, of course, but I appreciate that that’s what you’re looking for.

Your argument that increasing or preserving the margins of farmers so they can spend surpluses on innovative and less carbon-intensive technologies has a logic to it, but the point is that you need some kind of incentive for them to do that. There’s no guarantee that farmers will use the surpluses, fungible as they are, for that particular task.

Again, there are other tools by which we can incentivize farmers to use geothermal and solar and whatever else might appear, and this is through the means of direct incentives for those technologies.

Why are we not considering these other pathways that, on the one hand, are consistent with the universality of a carbon tax, recognizes the fluctuations, incomes and prices that farmers inevitably face, but also focus on incentives for specific carbon‑reducing technologies that may be available in the years ahead?

Senator Wells: Thank you for the question, Senator Woo. I’m sure those incentives are already there for migrating to alternative sources of fuel that have carbon neutrality, like geothermal, solar and wind, but we’re not there yet. We may be there in some small-scale operations, but we’re not there on an industrial scale.

Canada, among most countries, is a world leader in industrial farming. These are industrial-scale operations that don’t yet enjoy the benefit of geothermal and all the other things that may occur in the future through innovation, investments or other technologies, but this is what we have. The carbon tax is relatively new, and the industry has not caught up to it.

One day, it would be great if these industrial processes were carbon neutral. In regard to on-farm, I still push back on your claim that this is a carve-out because the system already exists where there are exemptions. This is just adding to those exemptions. We will agree to disagree.

This is further assistance for the ranchers, growers and farmers to reach where they need to be.

Senator Plett: Now we see Michael Chong being discredited by the Trudeau government, including by your parliamentary secretary.

Will the Trudeau government stop hiding the truth about foreign interference, stop blaming Michael Chong and apologize to him, or are we going to hear the Prime Minister’s infamous excuse — that people experience things differently — for his own bad behaviour?

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. As the Prime Minister recently said, and I quote: “Building a world free of racism requires deliberate, continuous efforts to change perceptions.”

In that respect, the government has committed to building a more inclusive country where everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed. With the support of the Federal Anti-Racism Secretariat, the government is continuing to take steps to combat racial discrimination and its impacts on individuals and communities across the country, including in the health care system.

The government has put in place initiatives such as Promoting Health Equity: Mental Health of Black Canadians Fund, which supports community projects designed to promote mental health in Black communities; the Addressing Racism and Discrimination in Canada’s Health Systems Program, which funds projects that fight systemic racism in our health care systems; and the Indigenous Health Equity Fund, which demonstrates Canada’s commitment to implementing Joyce’s Principle to bring in legislation on Indigenous health, address systemic inequities faced by Indigenous people and give them access to high-quality and culturally appropriate health care free from racism and discrimination.

[English]

Senator Gold: Although they become fewer with each passing month, there remain far too many challenges facing Canadians, especially with the cost of groceries and inflation in several sectors.

It is concerning, and that is why the government is moving forward with Bill C-46, which will be debated at third reading tomorrow, despite a translation error. This bill will help 11 million of the most vulnerable and marginalized Canadians, who need the government to give them a hand as part of a responsible budgetary framework.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. It is one thing to stand up, as oppositions do, to demand information that is classified, would be against the law and is against the law to publicly disclose. That is the partisan prerogative of this opposition.

The fact remains that the Government of Canada, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs learned of this a week ago. Proper, prudent steps were taken to determine and evaluate the allegations that were made — again, I repeat — by leaked, not necessarily nuanced documents of a classified nature. The government, as Minister Joly also said, had a responsibility to the Canadians in China and to those here, as well as to the economic interests of those farmers and other producers whose livelihoods depend upon their continued access to markets in China, to at least assess the consequences that the government took, and properly so, in declaring this diplomat persona non grata.

The process took a week. It was done properly, in conformity with the Vienna Convention, in consultation with our allies, on whom we depend, to make sure that what happened to the two Michaels and reprisals against our farmers and producers would not be repeated.

Senator Plett: Well, yes, in fact, he is. It is similar to when the Prime Minister says that he isn’t aware of information — the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff Katie Telford says that she ensures he receives everything that he needs and that he sees everything.

We have seen this before — as I just mentioned — from the Prime Minister and his government. Nothing is ever their fault — blame the victim, spread misinformation and never apologize unreservedly.

A few days after the SNC-Lavalin scandal was revealed in The Globe and Mail, the Trudeau government engaged in a smear campaign against Jody Wilson-Raybould. The Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs rightly called it blatant sexism.

Minister O’Regan personally attacked veteran Sean Bruyea in a newspaper column. Vice-Admiral Mark Norman never received an apology for what the Trudeau government put him through.

Senator Gold: I will continue to make every effort to answer seriously the questions that raise serious issues, though it does somehow sometimes strain my creativity to do so in the face of some of the implications.

I’m about to answer it, colleagues, but you’ll at least allow me the small indulgence to comment on the rhetoric that surrounds these otherwise important issues that you raise for your purposes.

The Prime Minister was very clear that although his government was not made aware until The Globe and Mail published the leaked documents, he instructed CSIS:

Going forward, we are making it very, very clear to CSIS and all our intelligence officials that when there are concerns that talk specifically about any MP, particularly about their family, those need to be elevated.

He also said:

Even if CSIS doesn’t feel that it’s a sufficient level of concern for them to take more direct action, we still need to know about it at the upper government level.

That is what this government has instructed CSIS. That is the way in which it expects the intelligence services to go forward.

Senator Jaffer: Thank you. Let us also take this opportunity to remember that diversity makes this country stronger. It is the key to our shared prosperity. There is no room in Canada for intolerance or hate. Never again should we pass an act such as the Chinese Exclusion Act. Never again should we treat Chinese Canadians any differently from any other Canadian. They belong to Canada. Thank you.

Senator Gold: Well, that’s quite the tour d’horizon, Senator Plett.

The government has put into place serious measures to address the issue of foreign interference. We are waiting, and it will only be a few short weeks until the report of the Right Honourable David Johnston — at which point Canadians will understand the next steps that the government may be advised to conduct in its continued effort to protect Canadians from foreign interference.

Senator Black: For my clarity, and for the clarity of our colleagues, is agriculture a priority for your government? Yes or no.

Senator Batters: Senator Gold, Prime Minister Trudeau’s Public Safety Minister Marco Mendicino plays fast and loose where facts are concerned. He recently claimed that the RCMP had ousted Beijing government police stations operating in Canada, but an article days later proved that wasn’t the case.

During last year’s convoy, Mendicino repeatedly insisted that police asked for the federal government to invoke the Emergencies Act, a claim that was flatly denied by police.

Now, after enduring opposition criticism on this issue, Minister Mendicino finally said last week that he has only known about the threats against MP Michael Chong since last Monday, even though the CSIS assessment was dated July 2021.

Whether the minister willfully failed to be informed, or whether his advisers failed to inform him, either way, it’s a firing offence. The question is who will be fired. If the Minister of Public Safety is so unaware of what’s going on in his portfolio, when will he finally be fired? If CSIS knew two years ago and failed to inform him until last week, who will lose their job there?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, on behalf of the Government Representative Office, I rise today to welcome Senator Iris Petten to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Petten holds a Bachelor of Arts and a Bachelor of Vocational Education from Memorial University of Newfoundland. Later, her alma mater would honour her with an honorary degree, a Doctor of Laws.

An important part of Senator Petten’s previous career was defined by her time in the business world and her success as an entrepreneur. In 1984, Senator Petten began her career in the fishing industry with Fishery Products International. She would then be a founding shareholder and serve as Vice-President of Grand Atlantic Seafoods. In 2000, she would co-found Ocean Choice International, where she remained until 2008.

It was as early as her childhood that Senator Petten began her apprenticeship in the world of fishing. Her father was a fisherman and a boatbuilder, as were generations before him.

Senator Petten, your deep roots will prove invaluable in advancing matters of importance to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, but I suspect much of your knowledge and skills of the fishing industry are transferable, and they will surely serve as a boon and an asset to the Pacific and Arctic coastal regions and the maritime challenges that we know they face.

[Translation]

In addition to a long and brilliant career in the Atlantic fishing industry, Senator Petten has been an active member of her community, namely by serving three terms as the chair of the Board of Regents of Memorial University of Newfoundland from 2013 to 2022.

[English]

Senator Petten, once again, welcome to the Senate of Canada. We are honoured to count you among our colleagues. I speak for all of us, but I’m especially sure that Senators Manning, Marshall, Wells and Ravalia will ensure that you’re made to feel very much at home here in Ottawa, as will we all.

Welcome, and thank you very much.

Senator Boisvenu: When the bill is studied in committee, you’ll no doubt come to defend it. Is the government open to making a major change, through which recidivists who leave a penitentiary are automatically tried and we can go after them in the community?

[English]

Senator Busson: I’m not sure that I totally understand the question, but if you’re asking whether or not the proposals in this regime will better help the police to identify, track and make compliant these offenders, I believe that is taking place. It’s not my government, but I would hope there could be amendments that make this even more effective.

Senator Plett: You started off by saying the Prime Minister was clear. He was, in fact, clear when he said something that wasn’t true.

Yesterday, the Trudeau government was repeatedly asked how many parliamentarians and their families were targeted by Beijing’s interference. The fact that they still refuse to answer this question shows their sheer incompetence, leader.

It’s also incredible that the People’s Republic of China diplomat, who CSIS says targeted an MP and his family, was only expelled from Canada yesterday. The Trudeau government was shamed into taking this decision, which should have happened two years ago, leader.

In two weeks, the Prime Minister’s made-up Special Rapporteur is supposed to make his initial recommendations. I don’t know how anyone who witnessed what has transpired just in the last week could conclude anything less than a public inquiry.

Now, of course, we’ll find out what this Special Rapporteur will suggest. The Trudeau government failed; they failed in their duty to protect Mr. Chong and his family against threats from Beijing. How many other parliamentarians has this government similarly failed? Why can this government not answer this basic question?

Senator Cotter: Thank you.

I thought this was an important bill for you to bring forward, and I think we are all appreciative of it, particularly for farmers who have real challenges in producing food for Canadians and the world market.

I appreciated your observation that this was really not a political point, although, with the greatest of respect, I thought Senator Batters evolved it a little bit in that direction, as she has on occasion done here.

Let me make a statement, which is that your point about price takers also means, in some respects, that they have to take the price in the market, and they are not the ones driving up grocery store prices, because that is part of what they take rather than influence.

One of the strategies around carbon pricing is to try to incentivize people to make other choices. It is clear that is a real challenge for farmers in this context, but removing this from the carbon pricing regime does kind of disincentivize that direction. Whether you are enthusiastic about carbon pricing or not, it is trying to use market-based tools to incentivize.

Do you have suggestions? Are there other options that can generate that kind of incentive in this area so that we will actually end up with successes, say, adopting this but doing some other things that can inspire hog producers and grain farmers in their initiatives?

Senator Wells: Thank you, Senator Cotter, and you are right. There are other things that can be done. There could be a rebate on equipment that is done towards moving away from technology that requires fossil fuel. There are also programs for that.

The idea is not for the farmers and growers and ranchers to take the margin and run and go, “That’s great; we have this.” Each of the ones I quoted has said, “Our plan is to use this to invest in innovative technologies, something different.”

If it wasn’t the case, I wouldn’t say, as I did a number of times in my speech, that there are currently no alternatives that are market-ready in either equipment or fuel.

That natural gas and propane are transition fuels is very positive; it is not coal. If you said, “Okay, we won’t give you a benefit for using natural gas or propane,” if there’s still a penalty, they are going to choose the cheapest fuel they can, which, in many cases, is coal and oil.

Senator Jaffer: Honourable senators, Edith is very much involved in B.C. communities, pushing for the empowerment of women and visible minorities, even attending the 1985 United Nations conference on the status of women held in Nairobi as a Canadian delegate.

Edith Nee and Patsy George were empowering women, ethnic women and women of colour, by founding the Vancouver Society of Immigrant and Visible Minority Women in British Columbia and the National Organization of Immigrant and Visible Minority Women in Canada. They have worked hard to make sure that all women were included.

By highlighting these few individuals, I wanted to remind everyone of the generosity of spirit demonstrated by the Chinese people towards British Columbia and their love for Canada as a whole, while celebrating their achievements and their public service.

Honourable senators, we are all aware of the debate that is going on around our country and especially on the Hill. I urge each and every one of you — in fact, I beg of you — to see that what happens between China and Canada is not the fault of Chinese Canadians. We have to be the leaders in making sure that what happens between governments does not affect our citizens. I urge you all to be aware of it and put a stop to it.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform the Senate that the Clerk of the Senate has received a certificate from the Registrar General of Canada showing that Iris G. Petten has been summoned to the Senate.

Hon. Yonah Martin (Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Honourable senators, on behalf of the opposition and the Senate Conservative caucus, I’m pleased to rise in this chamber and welcome our new colleague, who was sworn in just a few minutes ago.

Welcome to the Senate of Canada, Honourable Iris Petten. We look forward to working in a collaborative way with you in this chamber. I have no doubt that today will be busy, and yet it will also be humbling. When we welcome a new colleague, I find myself thinking back to the day when I was personally asked to serve in the upper chamber. It is a day, undoubtedly, that we all cherish, one filled with excitement and anticipation. For most of us, it is a day when we felt the weight of the responsibility which has been entrusted to us.

Senator Petten, I look forward to getting to know you. I look forward to hearing your unique perspectives in our debates and discussions, including your insights from your 35-plus years of experience in the fishing industry.

I trust that you will always keep in mind that our duty, as senators, is to protect the best interests of Canadians and, in your case, the best interests of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Canadians count on us to ensure that their voices are being heard and represented in Parliament. Together, in this chamber, we must strive to ensure the best path forward for Canadians across our beautiful country. This chamber must provide hope for Canadians, and we cannot forget that we are here to serve them.

Senator Petten, please know that the Conservative caucus will be pleased to work with you, and if ever you were inclined to join the most effective and focused team in this chamber, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I note that you are already well surrounded by wonderful senators from Newfoundland and Labrador.

On behalf of the opposition, as well as the Conservative caucus, I want to warmly welcome you as you embark on the journey with us in the Senate of Canada. Welcome to our Senate family.