Senator Martin: It’s shocking to hear that there would be no communication whatsoever. Protocol would have communication with the Prime Minister’s Office. The Prime Minister is the leader of our nation.

Senator Gold, the Prime Minister’s apology last week was several days late and he took no personal responsibility. I also note that he did not apologize to Canada’s veterans, especially those who served in World War II. Leader, could you tell us why our veterans were not mentioned? As well, given that the Prime Minister and his government refused to take any direct responsibility for this embarrassing and hurtful incident, aren’t they conceding that something like this could happen again?

Senator Gold: No, I’m afraid I cannot accept some of the premises, senator, of your question. First of all, the independent Office of Protocol, in response to my inquiry last week, responded, “The Chief of Protocol does not report to the Prime Minister’s Office.” It is simply incorrect to continue to insist that somehow the terribly unfortunate incident was the responsibility of the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister apologized on behalf of Parliament to Canada, and my understanding is that communications have taken place and continue to take place with the Government of Ukraine, of which we are a proud and staunch supporter.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform you that I have received the following communication from Government House, which reads as follows:

RIDEAU HALL

October 3, 2023

Madam Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that Her Excellency the Right Honourable Mary May Simon, Governor General of Canada, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 3^rd day of October, 2023, at 2:10 p.m., for the purpose of receiving the newly elected Speaker of the House of Commons.

Yours sincerely,

Maia Welbourne

Acting Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable

The Speaker of the Senate

Ottawa

[Translation]

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate, I move:

That, if Her Excellency the Governor General comes to the Senate later today, photographers be allowed in the Senate Chamber to photograph proceedings while Her Excellency is in the Senate, with the least possible disruption to proceedings.

Senator Francis: Thank you, Senator Gold. I do not have to remind you or the relevant ministers that time is of the essence. Every single day, we are losing survivors, and they, along with their families and communities, deserve justice as soon as possible.

Senator Gold: I could not agree with you more.

Senator Simons: I have a supplementary question. In 1986, the Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals in Canada, known to most as The Deschênes Commission, released a two-part report that examined allegations that post-war Canadian governments had permitted and indeed even welcomed known Nazi war criminals into Canada. The report had two parts, one of which has never yet been made public. While I understand and support the need to respect the privacy rights of those who were accused but not charged with war crimes and to respect the dignity and reputation of Canada’s wonderful Ukrainian community, it is now 37 years since the Deschênes report was written. At what point can Canadians expect its findings to be made public?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(At 5:32 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 2 p.m.)

Appendix—Senators List

Senator Woo: Thank you, Senator Omidvar, for the question. The definition of consensus is a general agreement. It is not unanimous agreement. If it were, there wouldn’t be the word “consensus.”

Now, the way in which consensus can be reached —

Senator Woo: We are accountable to the oath that we took when we became senators.

With respect to the point about the House having a bearing on whether we are with the government or not, it does not. Clearly, we are here as unelected members. Those of us who are independents do not belong to the government or to a political party.

You make endless references to the Westminster system as if there is just one version of Westminster. In fact, our own chamber, through the Special Senate Committee on Senate Modernization in its study of Westminster systems, has determined that there are multiple styles of Westminster parliamentary democracy, and asserted clearly that our Senate is a unique form of Westminster parliamentary democracy, and that our upper house has the power to determine its style of Westminster parliamentary democracy. For you to somehow deny that is the case — when we have endorsed that report, we have said that to be true, we have taken decisions in this chamber that give us a different way of operating — is disrespectful to our institution.

Senator Plett: You actually said that with a straight face. The Prime Minister — and you, Senator Gold — talk a good game about the independence of the Senate, but this Liberal Prime Minister has appointed 70 so-called independents, and none of them have joined the Conservative caucus. What a coincidence. What a surprise. It seems the only criteria needed to be appointed as a senator is not to be a Conservative.

However, Albertans elected three Conservatives to represent them in the Senate. Justin Trudeau does not tolerate opposition. We’ve seen that with his refusal to name a Conservative senator to the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP, and we see it again here. Leader, is that why the people of Alberta will be snubbed again by Justin Trudeau because they dared to elect Conservatives?

Senator Gold: The availability of properties, whether federally owned or otherwise, is only one element in the process which is sometimes complicated to bring a project to light. I can speak with some experience, having worked for 20 years, in part, in this space.

With regard to your question, again, the federal government is doing its part. More can be done by all levels of government. All levels of government should continue to work together to address this very important crisis and challenge for all Canadians.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. The report by the late and honourable Jules Deschênes was an important one that did shed light on many things. It is my understanding that some of it was public, but there were parts that were redacted for reasons that undoubtedly include those to which you referred. I’m not aware of what the status is of the reflection and the calls that have been made publicly — as you’re aware — recently for the release of the redacted portions. I will add that to the inquiries I will make.

Senator Plett: In 2019, the Trudeau government ended the previous federal surplus property program and, instead, created its own Federal Lands Initiative. The website for the Federal Lands Initiative says it’s “. . . a $200-million fund that supports the transfer of surplus federal lands and buildings to eligible proponents” at discounted cost or even at no cost to be developed for use as affordable housing.

If you were to look at this website right now, Senator Gold, you would see that it says in big, bold letters, “There are currently no properties available.”

Leader, how is that possible? The CBC alone owns over $400 million worth of property. How can a $200-million fund not find even one federal property to be turned into housing?

Senator Gold: Thank you again for the question. Again, regretfully, I don’t know. I have no information about the state of the collaborations and consultations. Again, I will certainly look into the matter.

Senator Woo: Yes.

Senator Cotter: Given the urgency for so many people, I hope that inquiry is an urgent one, Senator Gold.

I have a brief supplementary question. Part of the government commitment was that the regulations to give effect to that benefit would be developed in a deeply collaborative process with the disability community. The leadership in the disability community advised that, despite earlier commitments to this richly collaborative process, which is unique to this benefits development, the government approach is neither unique nor richly collaborative. It’s more of the same old thing. Can you inform us on this?

Senator Carignan: Your government has been in power for eight years, but your answer to me today is that the RCMP is calling for bids for language classes. Are you kidding me?

Senator Housakos: Senator Woo, I have two short questions. First, how could you profess that the government — that is, the elected Prime Minister who appoints in this parliamentary chamber and simultaneously appoints the government senators who will also serve in the opposition — could appoint government representatives and opposition representatives simultaneously?

Second, how could this chamber, despite being an appointed body — and there are few left in our modern parliamentary democracies — completely ignore the will of the democratic choice in the other house in choosing the government on one side of this chamber and the opposition on the other, as has been the tradition since 1867?