The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Batters: Senator Gold, I told your government five years ago that this terrible bill, Bill C-69, was unfixble and would be found unconstitutional:

It intrudes on provincial jurisdiction and violates our Constitution’s division of powers. . . . The Trudeau government keeps shoving its way into matters of provincial jurisdiction.

Your government should have shelved it then but stubbornly refused. Will you shelve it now?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your supplementary question. As I’ve just said, honourable colleague, the government is studying the guidance that the Supreme Court has provided for ways to make the legislation fit within the parameters of their ruling, and the minister and the Government of Canada are determined to move forward with this legislation and these changes that they have announced.

Senator Gold: Thank you. Regrettably, I don’t have any more details on this than in the answer I gave to our colleague, Senator Cordy, earlier this month. To remind my honourable colleagues, the Canadian Dental Care Plan is expected to begin rolling out by the end of this year, and by 2025, it will be fully implemented to cover all uninsured Canadians with an annual family income under $90,000. Again, the government remains committed to moving forward.

Senator Plett: A subsidy of $1.4 billion does not make them an independent organization. Despite what the CBC says, it’s a fact, Senator Gold, that Hamas has been a terrorist entity under Canada’s Criminal Code for 21 years. This is not opinion; this is fact.

The fact that the CBC won’t call Hamas terrorists tells Canadians all they need to know about the state broadcaster they fund through their taxes. Is there anyone in the Trudeau government who will condemn the CBC for this?

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Senator Plett: I take offence at that answer, Senator Gold. I stand with Israel. I always have. I’m sorry that I have to ask these difficult questions. For you to think there is anything nefarious there is problematic.

Leader, I won’t repeat what the staffer said, but his hateful words can easily be found online. If any one of us can find those words and if we can clearly see them for what they are — anti‑Semitic — then the PCO should be able to as well. The staffer kept his employment within the Government of Canada. Why is no one held accountable under this Trudeau government?

Senator Gold: Thank you. I will add this observation to the information I will be forwarding to the minister.

[English]

Senator Gold: I acknowledge that it’s legitimate to ask questions about how such matters are treated by employers, whether governmental or otherwise. My comments stand for themselves.

I have no knowledge of this particular case and have no further comments to make in that regard.

Senator Plett: Thank you, Senator Klyne.

At the start of your speech, I think I heard you talk about the worst forest fire season in history and the warmest temperatures in history. I don’t want to get into a debate. I might take some time to speak about this at some later time —

Senator Martin: Senator, the numbers speak volumes. This summer, RBC said that 43% of its residential mortgages were longer than 25 years, which is a jump of 40% in just one year. Early last year, RBC reported having no mortgages longer than 35 years; now they represent 23% of RBC’s mortgages.

Leader, why do you think it takes 25 years to save up for a down payment now when it used to take that long to pay off a mortgage? Isn’t it because the Prime Minister is not just worth the cost of — after eight long years —

Senator Gold: The Government of Canada understands very well the challenges that Canadians are facing with rising interest rates and the impacts they have, not only on their housing but on other choices they have to make. However, it is simply not the case that the responsibility for the problem lies with the federal government. The federal government is here to provide assistance, however.

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, with all due respect, for years, we have had motions in this chamber, and there have been motions that have passed in the House of Commons, calling upon the government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. Saying it takes time and is ongoing is not acceptable when it has already been seven or eight years. The government has the power to do this, and when you don’t do it, it empowers organizations like the IRGC.

When will you list the IRGC as a terrorist organization?

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

Senator Gold: The idea behind the bill is not to go backward and get rid of commonly used tools such as social media. It is instead to ensure that our traditional media and our local journalists, which Canadian democracy relies on, receive fair support compared to the media giants who benefit from it.

Senator Cotter: If I may, I have a jurisdiction question, Senator Tannas. The language in the preamble speaks to the inherent right of First Nations and the like, along the lines that Senator McCallum had raised earlier, but the bill is actually structured to be a delegation under the Criminal Code, so I’m curious about that.

Another dimension of this is that the structure of the bill says that when a First Nation gives notice to Canada that it intends to establish a gaming regime on its reserve, that First Nation, for the purposes of gaming, is deemed to no longer be part of the province in which it’s situated. It struck me as a unique provision that First Nations, for certain purposes, are deemed not to actually be part of the province anymore. I wonder if you could speak to those jurisdictional questions.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question.

No, what is the same thing is the drumbeat that you continue to play in the face of the actions that Canada is taking both to protect its citizens and to play its part on the world stage.

Senator Tannas: Yes. They are part of the challenge of reconciliation. It certainly will come across that way in things like child and family social services. It will come that way in education. It will come that way in health. It will come that way in a whole bunch of different areas over the course of time, and it will have to be dealt with.

All we wanted to do, and the simplest thing to do today, was to put Indigenous governments on their reserves where they have jurisdiction in the same position as the provinces. That was the simplest way to do it. There may be, in the fullness of time, other ways in which it could be done. There may be a point when the provinces can’t agree on things and we have to come up with a national gaming scheme. Who knows? But I would not want a new set of soothing words about a “someday, maybe” national gaming program that would include First Nations to get in the way of doing something that’s simple and elegant today.

Senator Pate: Thank you very much for that response, Senator Gold. I’m interested in the specific steps — perhaps you could provide them in writing — that the government has taken to have these interjurisdictional discussions with provinces, territories and municipalities that have been raised by a number of jurisdictions, which I first highlighted on June 8, 2021, just after the action plan was introduced.

Senator Gold: I’m sorry my answer does not satisfy you, Senator Housakos. As I have said on other occasions, it is an easy matter to make the argument, but it’s far more difficult and important to make sure that innocent people who are drawn into these matters do not suffer.

The government is taking its responsibility seriously and responsibly.