Senator Dean: Thank you, Senator Deacon. I have seen organizations with exceedingly heavy regulatory and rule-bound systems, and it is remarkable how those can dissolve — maybe temporarily — when a prime minister or a premier and a head of public service task public servants with getting to an end goal quickly. Those barriers can be removed. I wouldn’t want to create the impression that we need to go through a long period of changing the myriad rules in public service organizations to get to the goal quickly.

Those things should be done, but my advice would be to not get tangled up with that. Let’s clearly identify objectives, put political weight behind them, put public service leadership behind them and get the right people in the right jobs from the right places who have done this before and demonstrated success, and we will move the yardsticks.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Simons, calling the attention of the Senate to the challenges and opportunities that Canadian municipalities face, and to the importance of understanding and redefining the relationships between Canada’s municipalities and the federal government.