Hon. Brent Cotter: Honourable senators, I hadn’t intended to intervene in the debate, and I have immense respect for Senator Carignan’s thoughtfulness in relation to matters related to the criminal law, but I do want to raise two observations.

One, if the nature of this is to try to increase the mandatory minimum for certain quite serious crimes, it seems a bit unusual to do it by ratcheting up the nature of the offence, particularly when one does that with respect to first-degree murder.

Second, more generally — and maybe in a slightly protective way related to the role and responsibilities of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee — we constantly face challenges at that committee in — I don’t want to use the word “tinkering” with the Criminal Code — but in making individualized adjustments. It’s a big enough challenge as it is to be comfortable that we are addressing those questions in an organized, logical and coherent way.

With respect to first-degree murder, the regime for, essentially, borrowing the concept of planned and deliberate, setting that aside and holding first-degree murder together for other types of offences, particularly based on the victim, is a very fragile and carefully thought-together framework. I don’t even call it a “regime,” but a “framework.” With the greatest of respect, this is a problematic way of making amendments to and expanding the scope of first-degree murder without reflecting on that larger category.

As I think you will know, the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee was not mandated to work on this bill, and this is a matter, I think, that if it deserves consideration, it should be done independently and with richer degree of thought.

Thank you very much.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Senator Cotter, will you take a question?

Some Hon. Senators: Nay.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: I do believe the “nays” have it.

And two honourable senators having risen:

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: I see two senators rising. Do we have an agreement on the length of the bell?

An Hon. Senator: Defer the vote to the next sitting of the Senate.

Some Hon. Senators: No.

Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

An Hon. Senator: Dispense.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: In amendment, it is moved by the Honourable Senator Carignan that — shall I dispense?

Hon. Senators: Question.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Are honourable senators ready for the question?

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those in favour, please say “yea.”

Some Hon. Senators: Yea.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: All those against, please say “nay.”