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Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 169

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 20, 2023 11:00AM
  • Mar/20/23 2:38:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the official opposition brings one interest to this place, and that is the interest of Canadians to find out what the Prime Minister knew about foreign interference by the government in Beijing in our elections in 2019 and 2021. However, the NDP, a party that twice voted to send Conservative staff to committee when we were in government, and that twice voted for Katie Telford to go to committee when their coalition partners were in government, are now unwilling or unable to send her this time. Is it a condition of the supply and confidence deal between these coalition partners that the NDP not send Katie Telford to committee?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:39:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will tell everyone what obstruction looks like. When I was the critic, and I was trying to deal with the then Conservative government, Justice Iacobucci and Justice O'Connor critically called for the establishment of an independent oversight mechanism filled with parliamentarians that could look into every aspect of government. What did the opposition leader do when he was minister of democratic reforms? He did nothing. He did not take action on that. We did. This means that members of Parliament from every single party have the opportunity to look into every aspect of this matter. We have offered witnesses. We have had many ministers testify. What is their interest? Partisan—
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  • Mar/20/23 2:39:40 p.m.
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The hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:39:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what we have received is horrific partisanship from the government House leader and the Liberals. They appointed a family friend of the Prime Minister, a board member on the Beijing-funded Trudeau Foundation, to advise the Prime Minister on whether he maybe should, probably, might, could have a public inquiry. We are looking for a public inquiry for Canadians, and we are looking for the Prime Minister's chief of staff to testify at committee. Why will the Liberals and their NDP coalition partners not allow the Prime Minister's chief of staff, Katie Telford, to testify?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:40:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I believe the hon. member across from me to be an honourable member. I am absolutely certain of his commitment to Canadian democracy. I hope that he would share the belief that every member in the House is equally committed to our Canadian democracy and equally offended at the idea of foreign interference interrupting it. What concerns me is that we have provided mechanisms for every party to be able to look at every aspect of this. We provided an eminent Canadian who is going to look at this independently and provide recommendations. We have offered multiple ministers, multiple witnesses. Their interest continues to be a partisan interest, not a factual interest. That is inappropriate.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:41:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, by interfering in Canada's electoral system, Beijing's Communist Party is subverting our democracy. As parliamentarians, all of us should be seized with this unacceptable affront. There is someone in Canada who knows full well what may have happened. She was in charge of the current Prime Minister's election campaign and is currently the Prime Minister's chief of staff. We want to hear from her in committee. We know that the government does not want her to testify. My question is for one member of the government coalition, the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie. Will he rise in the House and tell his constituents that he will vote in favour of complete freedom and, above all, full transparency in this matter and allow Ms. Telford to appear before the committee?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:41:51 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we share our colleague's interest in the importance of strengthening democracy. To use his own words, we do not want anyone subverting Canadian democracy. As I said, that is why we, as a government, put in place measures that did not exist before 2015, when his friends were in power. We also asked the Right Hon. David Johnston to look at all the measures currently in place and to make recommendations that will be made public about what more we can do to reassure Canadians that essential measures are in place.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:42:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the minister is a seasoned parliamentarian and an honourable man. What does he have to say about the fact that his government members talked non-stop, while saying nothing at all, for over 20 hours to prevent democracy from working? The minister is a strong supporter of full and complete democracy, especially parliamentary democracy. The chief of staff, Ms. Telford, knows things that Canadians want to know about what happened with the regime in Beijing. Will the minister allow her to testify in parliamentary committee, yes or no?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:43:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague knows full well that our government has been aware of the importance of strengthening our democracy and democratic institutions from the very beginning. He also knows full well that ministers are always available to give proper testimony before parliamentary committees. My hon. colleague may not have been here last week, but I am sure he watched the Minister of Foreign Affairs' extraordinary testimony in committee. He knows very well that we will always be there to answer our colleagues' questions.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:44:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, China's interference is the greatest threat to democracy and national security. That was the blunt statement made by CSIS, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, last Friday. The government's response should, at the very least, be on par with CSIS' fears, yet appointing a special rapporteur without a mandate or timeline does not rise to that level. At best, this is a case of wasting time until the special rapporteur comes to the only appropriate answer. At the end of the day, there is only one answer, one transparent and non-partisan solution, for combatting foreign interference. Will the government finally launch a transparent and independent public inquiry?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:44:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we agree that foreign interference should never be a partisan issue. That is why we appointed someone who is independent, has an impeccable background and will be able to review everything available when it comes to foreign interference in our elections and make recommendations. We value that independence. We know that David Johnston will be an outstanding individual to carry out this work and make recommendations to the government, which may include a public inquiry. Whatever the recommendations are, we will accept them.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:45:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if they want to know what independence looks like, they should be asking us. It would be easy to criticize Mr. Johnston's appointment as special rapporteur, but that would be letting the government off easy over its most significant ethical failure. CSIS is saying this is the greatest threat to national security, yet the government is choosing to cover it up. Seemingly unaware that foreign interference is spreading, it is choosing to buy time. To put it bluntly, there are only two possible conclusions to the special rapporteur's review. The first is to sweep the whole business under the rug, and the second is to propose an independent public inquiry, which is what everyone is asking for. Why not cut to the chase, be ethical for once and launch the inevitable inquiry?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:46:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Bloc is obviously trying to make us believe that it is serious about protecting our institutions, but let us take a look at its record. When measures were put in place to protect our elections, the Bloc voted against them. When we took steps to prevent foreign money from influencing our elections, the Bloc voted against them. When it came to strengthening the integrity of our voter lists, the Bloc voted against that too. We take the job of protecting our democratic institutions very seriously. We will continue to do whatever it takes to strengthen and protect them, and we would appreciate the Bloc's help, for once.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:46:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is the wrong person and the wrong job. Irrespective of Mr. Johnston, the Prime Minister is the one who came up with the idea of a special rapporteur, which is the wrong job. The Prime Minister is the one holding up the investigation into the Chinese police stations. He is the one holding up the investigation into the intimidation of the Chinese community. He is the one holding up the study into potentially illegal election financing. He is the one sowing doubt about our democracy. The Prime Minister is the only person standing in the way of an independent public commission of inquiry. When will he get out of the way?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:47:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, our government has brought in important measures to counter foreign interference. My colleague claims that the Prime Minister was not there to strengthen democratic institutions. She knows that we are the first government to form a committee of parliamentarians to monitor our national security institutions. We have brought in other measures that will enhance electoral transparency. The Right Hon. David Johnston will continue this important work.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:48:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the motion in front of the House today orders the Prime Minister's chief of staff to testify about Beijing's foreign interference in front of committee. It is clear the government will be voting against the motion, but the government and its party cannot carry the House alone. It is not clear whether its confidence and supply partner, the NDP, will be voting for or against the motion. The public has a right to know before the vote. Could the government tell us if its confidence-and-supply partner will be voting for or against the motion?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:48:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is clear that David Johnston was appointed by Stephen Harper as governor general. The Conservatives had confidence in him to be the governor general of this country. He is the individual who is charged, as an eminent Canadian, to oversee this entire process. The Conservatives are now calling that individual into question. However, the idea that Mr. Johnston would not be committed to Canadian democracy and not look at every corner of this issue with the interest of Canadian democracy at heart is offensive. In addition, the opposition knows through NSICOP that its members have the opportunity to see any and all information in committee. Unfortunately, they voted against creating that process.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:49:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, three times, the Liberals and their NDP coalition partner blocked the Prime Minister's chief of staff from testifying about Beijing's election interference. Now, at the direction of the Prime Minister, Liberal MPs have been filibustering my straightforward motion for Telford to appear for nearly 24 hours. Why have the Liberals gone to such lengths to shield Telford? What does she know that the Prime Minister wants hidden from Canadians?
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  • Mar/20/23 2:50:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, individuals who received briefings and would have had knowledge of the 2019 and 2021 campaigns as national campaign directors have offered to testify at committee. The ministers who were responsible have testified before committees. Other witnesses and experts are testifying before committee. Why is the Conservative Party so solely and singularly focused on Katie Telford? I will tell the House why. It is a partisan interest, and it is deeply disturbing. The interest of Conservative members here is to wedge, divide and create a partisan advantage. I would suggest that, when we are dealing with something as serious as foreign interference, our focus should be on protecting our democracy, not partisan advantage.
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  • Mar/20/23 2:51:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's chief of staff is a critical witness to get to the heart of the scandal in terms of what the Prime Minister knows, when he knew about it and why he failed to respond to Beijing's election interference. If, instead of doing the bidding of the corrupt Prime Minister, the NDP do an about-face to finally stand up for democracy, and the motion passes, will the Prime Minister respect the will of the House or double down on his obstruction and his cover-up?
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