44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 20, 2023 11:00AM
- Mar/20/23 1:04:45 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to take a moment to express my heartache at the horrific stabbing that happened this morning in my riding, at Charles P. Allen High School. At the moment, there are three victims in the hospital and a student in custody. My prayers and heartfelt thoughts are with the victims. Special prayers go to them, as well as to the brave Halifax Regional Police officers who responded.
Could the minister please explain to the House and to Canadians the role of the special rapporteur?
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- Mar/20/23 1:05:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I extend my condolences to the member's community.
The role of the special rapporteur will be to provide advice on what, if any, additional steps need to be taken, given allegations of foreign interference that have been raised with regard to the 2019 and 2021 elections, but with sufficient flexibility to offer additional recommendations and suggestions on how we can better fight against foreign interference. As I said in my last response, that could include a recommendation for an independent public inquiry. It is not the only way in which that work can be done, but it is certainly an option that has been deliberately and consciously left on the table by the government.
I would point out, importantly, that the government will respect whatever recommendation Mr. Johnston puts forward.
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- Mar/20/23 1:30:57 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as I was saying, the close relationship between the Prime Minister and the rapporteur is troubling. It concerns me from an ethics standpoint. I think it would be in the government's interest not to rely on this rapporteur to shed light on the matter. There are too many grey areas at this time, and we do not like that.
It appears as though he will be the judge and jury. That may not be the case, but that is what it looks like. That is what I am hearing from the people of Trois-Rivières. It is in my interest to ensure that my constituents understand what is going on. For them to understand, we need to get to the bottom of this.
What will the rapporteur actually do? The rapporteur could call for a public inquiry. If that happens, we will have wasted time. The rapporteur could say there will be no public inquiry. In that case, I do not know what will happen, but something will have to be done, because it does not make sense. A public, independent and transparent inquiry is necessary.
This is interesting, philosophically speaking. The word “necessary” refers to something that must be done, so we intend to push for an independent public inquiry and get to the bottom of this.
Before I close, I would like to say a few words about the committee. The committee is sovereign and can choose its mandates. In this case, the mandate is coming from the House. It is prepared to tackle it. I hope I can count on the collaboration of my colleagues, whom we will support, so that we can reduce the number of witnesses and add certain other witnesses who are just as important. When we look at something like this, as Oscar Wilde said, “the truth is rarely pure and never simple”.
To remove any doubt, the Prime Minister needs to call public, independent and transparent public inquiry. The Bloc Québécois is in favour of the motion, but not just any motion.
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- Mar/20/23 1:32:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I very much appreciate the comments by my colleague from Trois-Rivières. His professional experience is very useful to us in this debate.
Earlier he mentioned the rapporteur. I would like to come back to that.
I think that all Canadians recognize that the person the Prime Minister appointed as rapporteur is a great Canadian who has had an admirable career and is well known for his charity work. Indeed, people are entitled to have friends and to be a friend of the Prime Minister. However, when someone is called to take a close look at the Prime Minister's work and the impact it had, that is where things change.
The current rapporteur appointed by the Prime Minister is on the board of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. We have nothing against the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation, but let us not forget that the foundation received $200,000 from people who are very close the Communist government in Beijing.
This is my question for my colleague from Trois-Rivières whose job it is to analyze matters of ethics and conflict of interest: Why does he think that the Prime Minister's appointment does nothing at all to reassure Canadians?
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- Mar/20/23 1:34:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very pertinent question.
The appointment of a rapporteur who has ties to the Prime Minister will not in any way protect the Prime Minister from himself.
As an ethicist, I think this decision is a huge red flag. I believe that in this situation, we must make it possible for people to once again trust the government, and that is not possible with these perceived ties—which are not just perceived, they are actually real.
I am not questioning Mr. Johnston's competence. I am saying that, in these circumstances, this appointment is unacceptable.
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- Mar/20/23 2:24:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the opposition leader knows very well that we take foreign interference very seriously. That is why, in 2015, we put in place a number of measures that did not exist when the opposition leader was the minister responsible in previous years. We further strengthened the measures to address foreign interference.
Last week, we announced the appointment of the Right Hon. David Johnston as an independent special rapporteur. We will continue to take this situation very seriously.
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- Mar/20/23 2:33:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, people are wondering why it is taking so long for the Prime Minister to launch a public and independent inquiry into allegations of foreign interference. Such suspicions are serious and deserve a serious response.
It is all fine and well to appoint a rapporteur, but it will mean nothing if his mandate does not include a public and independent inquiry to get to the bottom of things. That is essential to getting answers and reassuring people about our electoral system.
Will the Prime Minister mandate his rapporteur to hold a public, independent and transparent inquiry on foreign interference?
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- Mar/20/23 2:44:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, China's interference is the greatest threat to democracy and national security. That was the blunt statement made by CSIS, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, last Friday.
The government's response should, at the very least, be on par with CSIS' fears, yet appointing a special rapporteur without a mandate or timeline does not rise to that level. At best, this is a case of wasting time until the special rapporteur comes to the only appropriate answer. At the end of the day, there is only one answer, one transparent and non-partisan solution, for combatting foreign interference.
Will the government finally launch a transparent and independent public inquiry?
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- Mar/20/23 2:45:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if they want to know what independence looks like, they should be asking us.
It would be easy to criticize Mr. Johnston's appointment as special rapporteur, but that would be letting the government off easy over its most significant ethical failure. CSIS is saying this is the greatest threat to national security, yet the government is choosing to cover it up. Seemingly unaware that foreign interference is spreading, it is choosing to buy time.
To put it bluntly, there are only two possible conclusions to the special rapporteur's review. The first is to sweep the whole business under the rug, and the second is to propose an independent public inquiry, which is what everyone is asking for.
Why not cut to the chase, be ethical for once and launch the inevitable inquiry?
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- Mar/20/23 4:30:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am certainly not here to get down that rabbit hole on David Johnston, but I will make one thing clear: I do not recall anybody asking for a special rapporteur.
The hon. member suggests that it is our decision, but they have a decision they can make. They can call a public inquiry. They can allow an independent body to dig into this. They can have the Prime Minister commit to testifying at committee, if they believe in prime ministerial accountability, or they can have Telford testify.
Those three choices have been put on the table at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. What will the government do and what will the hon. member have to say when this comes up tomorrow?
He had the choice, yet they chose not to take this action and instead appointed the special rapporteur that nobody in the House asked for.
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- Mar/20/23 5:30:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is a vote all of us should be taking very seriously. At the end of the day, I would argue there is a choice. Does the member believe in the civil servants and the security measures in place that provide assurances to Canadians? Does the member believe that the special rapporteur has the integrity to come back to give a recommendation?
We can at least wait until we see the recommendation, wait until we see the report. There is all sorts of opportunity, and I hope members will take it seriously.
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- Mar/20/23 5:47:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my opposition colleague for the question and his mini speech.
I will answer with facts. Today's debate and the process under way in the two House committees are very important for finding answers. We need to investigate and find answers so we can restore public confidence in our institutions. When the government receives the report from the special rapporteur, it will act on the recommendations.
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