44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 20, 2023 11:00AM
- Mar/20/23 12:37:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is the Prime Minister who has done such a disservice to the former governor general. That is who should be apologizing to Canadians for dragging David Johnston into this. The fact of the matter is that David Johnston sits on the board of the Trudeau foundation. This is the very foundation that is at the hub of allegations of money flowing from the Communist regime into Canada. Do not take my word for it. The foundation itself admitted that when it repaid part of the money it received.
David Johnston himself talks about being a close family friend of the Prime Minister. Just because he may have been qualified to serve in one role years ago, as governor general, which is a non-partisan role and one that rises above the back-and-forth, does not mean he is suitable for this role. It is that point the Conservatives are highlighting when we talk about the conflict of interest.
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- Mar/20/23 1:03:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would say respectfully to my colleague that we have been very proactive when it comes to both the way in which we are fighting foreign interference and being upfront with Canadians as to the various manners in which we do that work. Without wasting any time, we have created new powers but we also introduced the committee of parliamentarians.
My colleague makes reference to some confusion around the next steps. We said, less than two weeks ago, that we had an intention of appointing a special rapporteur, an eminent Canadian who possesses the credibility and the qualifications to map out the next steps to better shield our democratic institutions, including elections, from the allegations of foreign interference. They are fair questions.
We have now appointed that individual, and I am encouraged that the New Democrats have not gone down the path of the Conservatives and have not been partisan with regard to Mr. Johnston but, rather, see that he is qualified to do this important work. Now we will do whatever we can to support him in his wide mandate so we can shine a light on additional steps, if any, including and up to a public inquiry, so there can be confidence in our institutions, most particularly our elections.
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- Mar/20/23 1:05:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I extend my condolences to the member's community.
The role of the special rapporteur will be to provide advice on what, if any, additional steps need to be taken, given allegations of foreign interference that have been raised with regard to the 2019 and 2021 elections, but with sufficient flexibility to offer additional recommendations and suggestions on how we can better fight against foreign interference. As I said in my last response, that could include a recommendation for an independent public inquiry. It is not the only way in which that work can be done, but it is certainly an option that has been deliberately and consciously left on the table by the government.
I would point out, importantly, that the government will respect whatever recommendation Mr. Johnston puts forward.
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- Mar/20/23 1:07:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would point out that, in addition to serving as the governor general for seven years, Mr. Johnston was also the head of a number of Canadian institutions, university institutions. He is also an extensive and accomplished lawyer and professor of law. He will be well qualified to navigate this.
Yes, the hon. member is quite right. I did make reference to Stephen Harper and his acknowledgement that Mr. Johnston is the best of Canadians, in the spirit of taking this out of the domain of partisanship.
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- Mar/20/23 1:34:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very pertinent question.
The appointment of a rapporteur who has ties to the Prime Minister will not in any way protect the Prime Minister from himself.
As an ethicist, I think this decision is a huge red flag. I believe that in this situation, we must make it possible for people to once again trust the government, and that is not possible with these perceived ties—which are not just perceived, they are actually real.
I am not questioning Mr. Johnston's competence. I am saying that, in these circumstances, this appointment is unacceptable.
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- Mar/20/23 2:24:14 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the opposition leader knows very well that we take foreign interference very seriously. That is why, in 2015, we put in place a number of measures that did not exist when the opposition leader was the minister responsible in previous years. We further strengthened the measures to address foreign interference.
Last week, we announced the appointment of the Right Hon. David Johnston as an independent special rapporteur. We will continue to take this situation very seriously.
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- Mar/20/23 2:25:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition knows very well that our government has always been very transparent with Canadians in the efforts we have made to counter foreign interference in our democratic institutions. It is something the Conservatives can claim to have done nothing about.
The foreign affairs minister and I were before the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs last week. We were happy to answer questions. The Prime Minister took a very important step last week in announcing the Right Hon. David Johnston as an independent special rapporteur, and we look forward to implementing his recommendations on what more can be done.
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- Mar/20/23 2:30:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we obviously share the sentiments of our hon. colleague about the importance of protecting democracy and democratic institutions, as well as maintaining and strengthening the trust Canadians have in those institutions.
That is precisely what we did last week when we asked the Right Hon. David Johnston to act as an independent special rapporteur, to look at the full suite of measures that we have put in place since we formed government and to make public recommendations as to the next steps. We will obviously follow those recommendations.
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- Mar/20/23 2:31:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, using “Johnston” and “independent” in the same sentence does not work.
We are not blaming Mr. Johnston for being a member of the Trudeau foundation. We are not blaming him for having a cottage next door to the Prime Minister's. We are not blaming him for being a close friend of the family. We are not even blaming him for saying that he felt at home when he went on a trip to China.
We are not blaming Mr. Johnston for anything. However, for the Prime Minister to select Mr. Johnston out of the 38 million people he had to choose from, he must be doing it on purpose. He must enjoy being his own worst enemy.
Can the Prime Minister help his friend out of this mess and do as everyone is asking and immediately set up an independent public commission of inquiry?
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- Mar/20/23 2:32:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think that all Canadians recognize Mr. Johnston's important contributions in a number of areas. Not only did he serve as governor general of Canada, but he was also the dean of a university law school. He is an eminent Canadian. He will work independently to make recommendations, look at all of the measures that we implemented as a government and make suggestions as to how we can continue to improve.
I think that my hon. colleague should recognize this important act on the part of Mr. Johnston.
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- Mar/20/23 2:44:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we agree that foreign interference should never be a partisan issue. That is why we appointed someone who is independent, has an impeccable background and will be able to review everything available when it comes to foreign interference in our elections and make recommendations.
We value that independence. We know that David Johnston will be an outstanding individual to carry out this work and make recommendations to the government, which may include a public inquiry. Whatever the recommendations are, we will accept them.
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- Mar/20/23 2:46:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is the wrong person and the wrong job. Irrespective of Mr. Johnston, the Prime Minister is the one who came up with the idea of a special rapporteur, which is the wrong job.
The Prime Minister is the one holding up the investigation into the Chinese police stations. He is the one holding up the investigation into the intimidation of the Chinese community. He is the one holding up the study into potentially illegal election financing. He is the one sowing doubt about our democracy.
The Prime Minister is the only person standing in the way of an independent public commission of inquiry. When will he get out of the way?
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- Mar/20/23 2:48:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is clear that David Johnston was appointed by Stephen Harper as governor general. The Conservatives had confidence in him to be the governor general of this country. He is the individual who is charged, as an eminent Canadian, to oversee this entire process. The Conservatives are now calling that individual into question.
However, the idea that Mr. Johnston would not be committed to Canadian democracy and not look at every corner of this issue with the interest of Canadian democracy at heart is offensive.
In addition, the opposition knows through NSICOP that its members have the opportunity to see any and all information in committee. Unfortunately, they voted against creating that process.
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- Mar/20/23 4:29:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, if this member wants to attack the credibility of David Johnston, that is entirely her prerogative, but I think nobody said it better than Chantal Hébert, who said that, if she had the accomplishments of David Johnston and she lived to be 81 years old, she wouldn't give a darn about what Pierre Poilievre or anybody else said about her—
Some hon. members: Oh, oh!
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- Mar/20/23 4:30:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I apologize.
Yes, I do not think that David Johnston should really care about what the Leader of the Opposition or any Bloc member says. I think that his record and his incredible accomplishments throughout his career, at 81 years old, speak for themselves. If people would like to challenge that, well, that is their prerogative.
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- Mar/20/23 4:43:57 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague said at one point in his speech that a non-partisan individual had been selected. He was of course referring to Mr. Johnston.
Mr. Johnston is a member of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation. He has a cottage next to the Prime Minister's. He is a family friend. He is a close personal friend of the Prime Minister, a friend since childhood.
Can anyone seriously try to tell us that Mr. Johnston is truly a non-partisan person?
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- Mar/20/23 4:44:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for her question.
I would point out that Mr. Johnston's appointment is supported by a wide range of people.
The reputation of Mr. Johnston is above reproach, and we can be confident that he is perhaps the best choice that we could think of among all Canadians to give us an objective, non-partisan report.
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- Mar/20/23 6:01:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have heard Conservative members talk about and try to defame the reputation of David Johnston.
Fred DeLorey, the former campaign manager for the Conservatives, was on a panel recently. I found it interesting. He said that, back when they appointed David Johnston as Governor General and to various different positions, he was accused of being too close to Conservatives. Now I am hearing Conservatives say he is too close to Liberals.
I am wondering if the member could comment on whether or not he thinks that David Johnston, despite his connections to anybody, has the ability to properly execute the role he has been put in charge of, regardless of the fact that he happened to live on a street that somebody grew up on, that Stephen Harper happened to appoint him as governor general, or that Stephen Harper happened to appoint him as head of an inquiry back in the day.
Does the member think that David Johnston has the ability to be impartial and to do that job to the best of his ability?
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- Mar/20/23 6:03:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, contrary to what the Liberals believe, we do not wish to call into question Mr. Johnston's competence. It is more about trying to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest and to demonstrate that, as elected members, we take this issue seriously and we are trying to restore the trust of people who have questions about China's interference. It is a serious matter.
As my colleague just explained, to demonstrate that this is a serious matter, the partisanship must stop. This is an urgent matter, and the time for committee meetings has passed, since they would unfortunately be drawn out and filibustered by the Liberals. That is what they did at the Standing Committee on National Defence to try to avoid an investigation into assault in the armed forces. That is what I am concerned about.
To expedite the process, perhaps we do not need a committee that is going to draw things out. Instead, we should immediately establish—
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