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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

May/8/23 5:34:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in particular, the member for Scarborough—Guildwood mentioned the need for a dose of humility in looking at the wider context of this situation. On that note, I wonder if he could comment about having a national public inquiry on foreign interference. Does he have a perspective to share on that? How much more information does he feel is required to support that?

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Hon. John McKay

May/8/23 5:34:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I look forward to the report of the Hon. David Johnston sooner rather than later, frankly. I hope that he will at least put a report in the public domain that we can debate. I am going to work on the assumption that it will be a fulsome report. The government has committed itself to responding fully to the recommendation or recommendations. Whatever they are, they will be adopted, but whether that in turn will mean something like a full-blown public inquiry, I do not know. I do think there is utility in moving the debate off the floor of the House into the wider public so that Canadians can come to grips with the existential threat that is the People's Republic of China.

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Mr. Ken McDonald (Avalon, Lib.)

May/8/23 5:35:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member mentioned in his speech that we are in unfamiliar territory with this particular issue. In Newfoundland, we would probably refer to it as uncharted waters. How do we get more familiar with it so that we know exactly what we are doing or what we should be doing?

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Hon. John McKay

May/8/23 5:36:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as the hon. member from Newfoundland would know, if someone is in uncharted waters and hits a rock, there are pretty serious consequences. I think this is an opportunity for Canadians to weigh in on debate. I think it should be part of a larger discourse on what our response should be. The ministers are right to point out that every action will have an equal and opposite reaction, with consequences to whatever decision is made. As long as we know what the consequences are and are prepared to deal with those consequences, we can move forward as a nation.

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Mr. Michael Cooper (St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC)

May/8/23 5:36:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I rise to speak to the motion put forward by my colleague, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, on the Speaker's ruling and prima facie determination that the member's privileges were breached as a result of tactics of intimidation employed by a diplomat at Beijing's Toronto consulate. This motion arises from a May 1 report in the Globe and Mail in which it was revealed that a July 20, 2021, CSIS intelligence assessment identified that a Beijing diplomat had sought to sanction and intimidate the family in Hong Kong of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills as retribution for the member bringing forward a motion in this House to call out the Beijing regime for its gross human rights violations in East Turkestan and to call those gross human rights violations out for what they are, and that is genocide. It was an attempt by the Beijing regime to have a chill effect on a sitting member and to interfere in that member's ability to do his job and fulfill his duties as a member of Parliament to speak in this House, to put forward a motion, to stand in his place and to vote on that motion on the basis of principle on behalf of his constituents and on behalf of Canadians. This is about as serious as it gets. For two years, the Liberals sat on that information. They sat on the fact that a Beijing diplomat was seeking to undermine our democracy by interfering with the ability of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills to perform his duties as a member of Parliament. Not only that, they sat on the fact that Beijing's Toronto consulate was also involved in other intimidation and interference activities affecting members of Parliament. The Prime Minister claimed that he knew nothing about it and that he learned about it in the Globe and Mail. Last Wednesday, the Prime Minister tried to change the channel by blaming CSIS. He said, “CSIS made the determination that it wasn't something that needed to be raised to a higher level because it wasn't a significant enough concern.” Then, on Thursday, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills was informed by the Prime Minister's national security adviser, Jody Thomas, that the Prime Minister's assertion was not true and that, in fact, the July CSIS intelligence assessment had been sent to the national security adviser of the PCO as well as to all of the relevant departments. The Prime Minister's claim that he did not know anything about it just does not add up. It does not add up based upon what the Prime Minister's chief of staff told committee, namely that he is briefed regularly about national security matters, that he reads everything and that nothing is held back. The Prime Minister's denial does not add up based on what CSIS told the committee, which is that CSIS definitely briefs the government when hostile foreign governments target politicians, and the Prime Minister's denial that he knew anything does not add up based upon what the Prime Minister's own national security adviser told the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. No one believes the Prime Minister when he says that he did not know. No one believes him, so he should just stop the charade and come clean that he covered it up for the Beijing regime. Even though no one believes him, if I were to, for a minute, try to believe him, I would say that it is an equal indictment on the Prime Minister's complete lack of fitness to lead this country. This is a Prime Minister who is the leader of our country. He is responsible for the machinery of government. He is responsible for the broad organization and structure of government, and he has special responsibilities when it comes to national security. For the Prime Minister to say he did not know is no excuse at all. It is an admission on the part of the Prime Minister that he does not care, is asleep at the switch and is not doing his job protecting the safety and security of Canadians, including sitting members of Parliament, from being intimidated from doing their jobs seriously in the face of an unprecedented campaign of interference by the Beijing regime. This is all taking place under the Prime Minister's watch. Then the Prime Minister decided to change the channel instead of taking responsibility. In the last eight years, I cannot remember a time he has ever taken responsibility. He is never responsible. What did the Prime Minister do instead of acknowledging that, as the Prime Minister, he is responsible for the machinery of government and has special responsibilities for government? He then blamed the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. The Prime Minister sent two of his parliamentary secretaries into the chamber on Thursday to falsely assert that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills had been briefed, knew his family was in harm's way, and knew so for two years, but did not tell his family or his colleagues. He essentially asserted that he was misleading Canadians now to make a big deal about what is certainly is a big deal. It was while I was speaking to my motion, to kick off the debate calling for, among other things, a public inquiry into foreign interference and expelling the Beijing diplomat involved in this intimidation campaign, which the Liberals voted against today, that it happened. In the course of that debate, the member for Kingston and the Islands asserted that. I have to admit that I was floored by what I was hearing. I could not believe what he was saying. Then the member for Winnipeg North doubled down on that misinformation to blame the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. In fairness, the member for Winnipeg North has stated that he did not have his facts straight, which is a start. He should apologize, but it is a start that he did not do the right thing that day. As well, the member for Kingston and the Islands has apologized, but not the Prime Minister. He has not shown some level of class, which the member for Winnipeg North and the member for Kingston and the Islands have demonstrated. No, he has not. The Prime Minister has doubled down on his misinformation campaign. He directed those members to come into the House to spread misinformation. Then, the very next day, he continued to spread the misinformation and continued his attack on the member for Wellington—Halton Hills. Here is what the Prime Minister said on Friday: “I was reassured to see that [the member for Wellington—Halton Hills] had received multiple briefings following the information collected by CSIS to ensure that he and his family were kept safe or would at least know what was going on in the extent that they needed to and they could be briefed.” The Prime Minister knew on Friday that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills had been briefed once, but he had not been briefed about the particulars concerning Zhao Wei and the efforts to intimidate him by sanctioning his family because of how he had voted in the House. The Prime Minister was aware on Friday that the member for Wellington—Halton Hills had received a briefing of a general nature that had nothing to do with the matter. However, in the face of that, we have a Prime Minister who was spreading this misinformation on Friday. Why would the Prime Minister do that? Is that a Prime Minister who is genuinely concerned about the well-being of the family of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills in Hong Kong? Is that a Prime Minister who has the integrity to admit that his government did not get it right and that the member should have been briefed? No, it is not a Prime Minister with integrity. It is a Prime Minister who is using every tactic in the book to change the channel to avoid accountability, and in the most disgusting of ways, engage in victim blaming by trying to disgracefully impugn the integrity of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, a member who I have gotten to know over the last eight years and who many members, in all corners of the House, have gotten to know. If there is one thing that can be said of the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, it is that he is a member of principle and integrity. He does not deserve this. If the Prime Minister had any integrity, he would apologize and he would apologize now to the member for Wellington—Halton Hills for spreading this kind of misinformation. This is part of a pattern that we have seen. The Prime Minister covers up issues of interference in our elections by Beijing and intimidation attempts by Beijing diplomats accredited in Canada. It gets reported on in the media, and then the Prime Minister tries to offer up excuses, blame others and say that there is nothing to see here at all. Nothing that we know about Beijing's interference in our elections or by Beijing diplomats is a result of anything that this Prime Minister has said. CSIS has advised the Prime Minister that the best approach to dealing with matters of foreign interference is sunshine and transparency, but there has been no sunshine. There has been no transparency. There has just been one cover-up after another. Only now, because the Prime Minister got caught covering up for this Beijing diplomat one week after The Globe and Mail first reported this, did the government, this afternoon, after voting against the official opposition motion, finally send Zhao Wei packing. It took the government and the Prime Minister two years. I can remember when the Minister of Foreign Affairs came before the procedure and House affairs committee a little over a month ago. This report in The Globe and Mail had not yet come to light, but there was plenty of evidence that Beijing diplomats, particularly at the Toronto consulate, as well as the Vancouver consulate, had been engaged in election interference activities. In the face of that, I asked the minister why it was that not a single Beijing diplomat had been expelled. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, incredibly, talked about a lack of evidence. Obviously, the minister and the government did have evidence. They had evidence with respect to Zhao Wei because they knew about it two years ago, but there she was, saying there was no evidence. Now, a week later, after it has been reported in The Globe and Mail, there was finally the evidence to send him packing. Why did it take two years? By the way, what is the minister talking about with respect to the need for evidence? What is the parliamentary secretary talking about with the need for due process with respect to these Beijing diplomats? There does not need to be due process. When there are findings of interference, article 9 gives the government the unfettered discretion to expel any diplomat, at any time, for any reason. Yes, it is true that making a decision to expel a diplomat could result in retaliatory measures being taken by the Beijing regime. I acknowledge that is something the Liberal government, and any government, would have to weigh. However, let me also say there is a cost of inaction. I would submit that that cost, in these circumstances, is far greater. It is simply intolerable that we have Beijing diplomats involved in facilitating the clandestine transfer of funding to candidates, targeting Conservative candidates in the 2021 election, and then bragging about the role they played in seeing that certain incumbent members of Parliament, whom they did not like, were defeated. It is intolerable that we have Beijing diplomats responsible for organizing illegal police stations to harass and intimate Chinese Canadians at what are effectively black sites. It is intolerable that we have Beijing diplomats intimidating members of Parliament and their families. It should not have taken two years. It should not have taken the Globe and Mail report, and it should not have taken a week of pressure from the official opposition for the government to finally send this Beijing diplomat home. When it comes to protecting our national security from Beijing, the Prime Minister is completely incompetent and unfit for office.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

May/8/23 5:56:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am wondering if the member could reflect on the questions he posed during question period. The Conservative Party knows that last week the Prime Minister made very clear indications—

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Mr. Bob Zimmer

May/8/23 5:57:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on a point of order, it is really difficult to listen to the comments from the member across the way when he still has not apologized to the member. I wish he would today.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/8/23 5:57:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I find that it is unfortunate that the Conservative Party is taking the tactic to try to bully or intimidate me in being able to address the House. I would ask that you, Madam Speaker, take it under advisement and review the number of points of order and the heckling that I get when I stand up to speak. I do not believe it is appropriate. As you can see, Madam Speaker, the heckling is going on right now.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

May/8/23 5:59:25 p.m.
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I know that the hon. member raised a point of order asking for an apology. I was not here in the chamber when this issue was before the House. I understand that this was raised with the Speaker. I would just say that at this point in time I am going to allow the hon. member to ask the question and I am sure that the hon. member for St. Albert—Edmonton will be able to answer that. The hon. parliamentary secretary.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

May/8/23 6:00:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am sure that if the member were to reflect on question period and the questions he asked, he made a very clear indication in saying the Prime Minister knew. In fact, the Prime Minister was very clear in indicating that the Prime Minister did not know. Therefore, does the member believe that members should be respected when they say that they did not know and that the member is spreading misinformation by telling people that the Prime Minister did know? The member could maybe reflect on that. Does the member recognize that in 2022 there were 49 members of Parliament who had general briefings that were provided. Does he believe that 2022 was the only year or that, in fact, that might have been happening for a number of years prior?

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Mr. Michael Cooper

May/8/23 6:01:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have every reason to believe that the Prime Minister did know. After all, the Prime Minister's national security adviser informed the member for Wellington—Halton Hills that the national security adviser to the PCO and all relevant departments had been briefed and similarly that this information absolutely would have made it to the Prime Minister. Given the fact that the Prime Minister is responsible for the machinery of government and that he has special responsibilities for national security, if something as significant as this did not reach his desk and if he had set up a government that shielded him from being informed about this, that is no excuse. That is an indictment on this Prime Minister and underscores what I said in the conclusion of my speech, which is that he is completely unfit for the office that he serves and he is completely unfit to protect the national security interests of Canadians.

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Ms. Monique Pauzé (Repentigny, BQ)

May/8/23 6:02:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the government admits that the Speaker of the House made the right ruling today. It is worth mentioning, but certainly a lot of questions remain unanswered. Why did this take so long? Why did they sidetrack the debate by appointing Mr. Johnston? Why not take the bull by the horns, as the saying goes? Does my colleague agree that if this had been the case, we could have saved a lot of time in the House and we could have debated several other topics that directly affect our constituents, such as health, seniors, and climate change?

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Mr. Michael Cooper

May/8/23 6:03:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if we had a competent Prime Minister and a competent government that took national security seriously, two things would have happened following that July 21 CSIS assessment. First, the member for Wellington—Halton Hills would have been immediately informed that a Beijing diplomat was targeting the safety and security of his family and threatening his ability to do his job in this place on behalf of his constituents and on behalf of Canadians. Second, that diplomat would have been sent packing to Beijing immediately, and not two years after the fact.

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Ms. Heather McPherson (Edmonton Strathcona, NDP)

May/8/23 6:03:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have some concerns about how we are going forward with this discussion and how we are building a stronger democracy in Canada. I know the member to be very thoughtful. Can the member speak about the circumstances where we have to keep things private? Regarding national security, we know not everything can be public. I am struggling right now. I am sure many people in this House are struggling with knowing where that line is and how we protect that very important public security line, but also have the ability to be transparent and also have the ability to ensure that parliamentarians know when they are at risk and when their families are at risk.

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Mr. Michael Cooper

May/8/23 6:04:38 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member does raise a point, but I would submit that, under the government, the pendulum is way over on the other side: no transparency and no sunlight. The advice of CSIS to the Prime Minister has been that in order to combat foreign interference, there needs to be transparency and sunlight. We have a situation so serious that a member of Parliament was being intimidated because of a position they took in this House and how they voted, and that their family was being threatened and sanctioned, potentially in Hong Kong, by an accredited diplomat in Canada. The member for Wellington—Halton Hills should have been made aware of it, the Canadian public should have been made aware of it and the Beijing diplomat should have been sent back to Beijing then, not two years after the fact.

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Mr. Marty Morantz (Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, CPC)

May/8/23 6:05:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the diplomat was expelled today, two years too late. He has been operating on Canadian soil for two years and the government knew about it. Is the government negligent?

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Mr. Michael Cooper

May/8/23 6:05:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I could not agree more with the member for Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley. The diplomat should have been expelled immediately and the government had all the tools at its disposal. Article 9 of the Vienna Convention gives the government the unfettered discretion to expel any diplomat at any time for any reason. The government did not do that. In doing that, it sent a message to Beijing that Beijing effectively has a green light to interfere in our democracy and our sovereignty to the detriment of the safety and security of Chinese Canadians and all Canadians.

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Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

May/8/23 6:06:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for St. Albert—Edmonton spoke about foreign interference with respect to one particular jurisdiction. Colleagues of ours, including the member for Edmonton Strathcona, have called out foreign interference with respect to other jurisdictions as well. Russia is one example. Does the member for St. Albert—Edmonton feel we should be looking at a full national public inquiry into all matters of foreign interference, regardless of what jurisdiction it is from?

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Mr. Michael Cooper

May/8/23 6:07:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right that it is not only the Beijing regime that is a threat in terms of interfering in our sovereignty and our democracy. The Canadian security establishment, including CSIS, has been very clear that by far the biggest threat emanates from the Beijing regime. There are other regimes, such as the Iranian regime that is interfering in Canada and intimidating and threatening Iranian Canadians. There is something the government could do to stop that, and that is to designate the IRGC as a terrorist entity so it can stop recruiting, fundraising and intimidating Iranian Canadians. However, the government's soft approach, four years after the House voted overwhelmingly to designate the IRGC as a terrorist entity, has not seen fit to do that. It is just another example of the government not taking national security seriously and not putting the interests of Canadians first.

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Hon. Mike Lake (Edmonton—Wetaskiwin, CPC)

May/8/23 6:08:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on Thursday, while my hon. Conservative colleague was speaking, he was being heckled by members on the Liberal side, particularly the member for Kingston and the Islands and the member for Winnipeg North. The member for Winnipeg North, in his heckle about the member for Wellington—Halton Hills, said the member is not credible.

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