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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

May/2/24 7:52:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for advocating for military veterans and their families. It is greatly appreciated. I want to go back to 2015. I recall knocking on doors and meeting military personnel living in the Comox Valley in my riding, and they could not find housing. People were struggling then. It takes long-out planning and thought, and the Liberals have failed to do that. They inherited a failed plan or no plan, if one wants to call it that, when it comes to housing for military personnel. Does my colleague regret that his government did not put more foresight into building housing units for military personnel? What would he do differently, moving forward, so that we could honour those people who are serving our country?

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Mr. Pat Kelly

May/2/24 7:52:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will say that the government does not have a monopoly on non-investment in the forces. That is not to say I agree with the premise of his question. I would go back to a previous Liberal government. We had a decade of darkness. We had the Prime Minister's father, who decimated the military and really even firmly withdrew us from the orbit of the western defence system. If we want to keep going back in time, I guess we can, but I am going to focus on the government that is here. I came here in 2015 when the current government was elected, and it has systematically ignored national defence and national security. It is about time that we had a government that takes these things seriously, becomes a meaningful and willing ally to our alliance, takes our national defence seriously and stands by our troops.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the King’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Emergency Preparedness, Lib.)

May/2/24 7:54:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, interestingly enough, the member and I have not had the chance to work together. We were elected the same year, but we have not had a chance to work together. I would like to thank him for the work he is doing on the national defence committee. I wanted to talk to him about postings. He did talk about postings and the difficulties with respect to finding homes for our military families when they move every two or three years, depending on where they are being posted. I think the member knows I have two children serving in the Canadian Armed Forces, so I know very well the challenges that families face. He mentioned there was no money in the budget for military housing. Page 307 does have information with respect to the commitment made. Could the member give us an example of something he heard during the study on maybe extending the length of time for postings? Rather than having a posting every two or three years, maybe that could be expanded to five or six years, instead of having to move around so frequently. I am not sure if that is something he heard during the study.

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Mr. Pat Kelly

May/2/24 7:55:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have heard that in multiple studies that we have undertaken. Any time we are talking about factors that affect morale, recruitment and retention, that comes up. It has always been thus, but with the cost of living being what it is, many people are rooted in a community in a way that earlier generations were not, because of connections to employment that do not transfer very well or housing. If somebody bought a house 10 years ago in one community and then gets re-posted across the country, that creates a significant hardship. Yes, I think there is a lot of awareness at the committee, if that is what the member is asking. I do not have a copy of the budget with me, but if the member is referring to the chart that I am thinking of, it is zero dollars this year, zero dollars next year, $1 million the year after that, and $14 million by 2029. That is not going to build enough houses to make even a dent in the backlog in housing.

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Mr. Michael Cooper (St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC)

May/2/24 7:56:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, picking up on the point made by the member for Calgary Rocky Ridge, about 4,500 units need to be built to house the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces on bases across Canada. We saw the government deliver its latest budget, which provides $61 billion in unfunded deficit spending, yet when it comes to investing in housing for the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces for this coming year, the government is providing a big fat zero, a big fat zero the following year, and then a mere $1 million in the third year. What does that say about the government's priorities when it comes to its lack of support for the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces?

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Mr. Pat Kelly

May/2/24 7:57:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think it says everything about priorities. We have had testimony at the defence committee from the chief of the defence staff and others who have clearly stated that we are perhaps in the most dangerous times since the Second World War, in the words of the chief of the defence staff. However, there is dithering over all of these critically needed changes that have to be made, like critical procurements. They seem to be problems one would think we could solve, like ammunition production, yet we dither away. We produce fewer artillery shells in a month than the Ukrainian army fires by lunchtime. It desperately needs these supplies. We do not even have enough to ramp it up and replace and fully stock our own supplies, never mind being a meaningful exporter to allies who also need this kind of kit. We have production issues, and we have the retention and recruitment crisis. There is no commitment from the government. The defence minister himself has said that his own cabinet colleagues shrugged their shoulders and did not listen to his plea for more money. We are under an obligation within our alliance to spend 2% of our GDP. That is a minimum commitment within the alliance that underpins Canada's security, and there is no plan to get there.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

May/2/24 7:59:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I asked earlier and I just want an answer. What would the Conservatives do in terms of offering a plan? We want to work with the Conservatives on this to ensure that we build housing for military personnel and their families and, of course, for those who have served, our veterans, whom we are always indebted to for the remainder of their lives. Does my colleague suggest an idea or a plan that he would like to present or discuss in the House that we could possibly work together on? We would like to see public lands kept in public hands. Those public lands should absolutely be prioritized for military personnel, veterans and indigenous peoples. Does my colleague agree with that?

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Mr. Pat Kelly

May/2/24 8:00:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member will have to wait for our platform. I am in no position to launch it today, nor do I have a plan to table. This is not the place for it. There is a commitment from our party, from our leader, to finally take defence seriously. There will be a plan tabled to ensure that the men and women in our forces get the respect they need, get access to the housing they need and get the kit and equipment they need for training opportunities and to be ready to deploy if necessary.

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie (Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, CPC)

May/2/24 8:01:02 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as we gather here in the House, I would like to take the opportunity to paint a picture of the issue brought forth by the Conservative shadow minister for national defence concerning the recent rent increase in military housing. Imagine a brave active military member serving at the arms depot in Dundurn or at 15 Wing air base in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. Military members serve this country proudly and have faith that the government is working cohesively to fight the affordability crisis. Just with that thought, their military housing rent goes up, along with the carbon tax. I am disappointed that we need to have this debate today. Military housing in an opportunity for serving members to be able to afford a place to live despite their salaries being too low and the cost of living being too high. We, as a government, should be prepared to provide them accommodations that reflect their sacrifices. The cost of living crisis is hurting everyone, and the brave people who serve in our Canadian Armed Forces are no exception. It is a fact that the high cost of living has brought stress upon Canadians above all other issues, and our brave men and women are not exempt from this. We need to be more mindful of the negative impacts this stress can have on their work, thereby impacting the security of our country. We need to look at this from a holistic point of view and understand the required synergies, or basic needs, for our military personnel to function best. Sitting on the veterans affairs committee, I have heard far too many stories about our heroes, who are serving or have served, struggling to get by and often ignored by the government, which says they are asking for too much. This is certainly not a good reflection at all and does not create an incentive for people to join the military, especially at a time when recruitment is facing record lows that are dangerous to the sustainability of defending our nation. It has been noted as a death spiral. Instead of retaining the fighter training program here in Canada, the Liberal government recently exported our fighter pilot training program to some of our allies. This affects Moose Jaw and Cold Lake. The government has sent our military members to Italy, Finland, Australia and the U.S. The government has added insult to injury, where we have lost training placements that are normally reserved for Canadians in the NATO jet training program down in the U.S. This is seriously reducing the capability of training our front line fighter pilots to defend our borders, leaving our northern airspace vulnerable. Whether one is serving or has served, it is clear that the Liberal government has ignored the importance of putting personnel first. Earlier this week, a veterans advocate spoke to our committee, sharing her thoughts on veterans homelessness. Rima Aristocrat said, “I cannot find any excuse, and I believe each and every one of you will say the same. There is no excuse. For somebody who gives us the life we have here, liberty and freedom we are so proud of. It did not come by itself. That took a lot of sacrifice, people's sacrifice.... Their families are unsung heroes. They sacrificed so much with them. And what do we do? Once a year we say thank you to them.... How about the rest of the time when they cannot afford to pay rent? How about the time when they cannot feed or clothe their children? How about the time we have to pick up homeless veterans from the street freezing there? There's no excuse for it. Our country is too great. We are too powerful. We are too kind to let this happen”. Ms. Aristocrat, along with others, recognize the financial desperation our military members and veterans are experiencing. It is a truly heartbreaking situation when those who fought for our country and saw their friends and comrades make the ultimate sacrifice are left behind or are unable to get by. Today, we are talking about how those who are currently serving are being squeezed. I was shocked to see that, on April 1, the 100th anniversary of the Royal Canadian Air Force, a day which we should be celebrating, not only did the government hike its inflationary carbon tax, but it also raised the rent for our military personnel. What kind of thanks for their service is that? Recently, the military ombudsman appeared at the national defence committee talking about this issue. He said that it would be “tone deaf” for the government to increase rent on the Canadian Armed Forces at a time when we hear of them struggling to find proper accommodations and make ends meet. However, that is exactly what we have come to expect from the current government: tone-deaf policies. Liberals see people struggling to feed and house their families and decide that they still need to raise the carbon tax. Only when their east coast members' seats are in jeopardy do they decide to provide a small bit of relief from this tax grab. I am sure those residents are happy, but when Saskatchewan argues that the same policy should be fairly applied to all Canadians, the Prime Minister decides to have the province audited by the CRA. Again, we have tone-deaf policies from the government. Our military personnel in Dundurn, Moose Jaw, and those serving coast to coast to coast should have all the possible support they need to keep our country safe and prosperous. We are too kind a nation to allow the military members I mentioned before, who are fighting for their country bravely, to suffer alone in this housing crisis and be seen as another source of an increase in revenue for the government rather than a vital part of our country's defence. The Liberal government's track record, whether it is national defence, supporting our veterans or building homes, is a complete failure. Liberal promises are like unicorns. They are not real; they are just fairy tales. Once again, I urge the government to come back to the real world, to wake up, to do what is right and to roll back this rent increase to ease the cost of living crisis for those brave people who put their lives at risk for us. In closing, I would like to take a quick moment to thank a young lady, Lora Laleva, who helped me write this speech. She is a young lady who believes in this country. She was sitting in this gallery earlier today and sat in the gallery all day yesterday, listening to our democratic process. I met with her, brought her to the office and said, “I want to see what you are capable of.” That young lady is going to be a future leader in this country, and we need to provide an opportunity for people like her to live in a prosperous nation. It is time to axe the tax. It is time to roll back the rent increase on our military personnel. It is time to send the right message to the people of this great nation that we live in that there is hope and opportunity for the next generation.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

May/2/24 8:11:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his service to our country as an officer in the Canadian Air Force. His office is right across the hall from mine, so we spend a lot of time together, and I appreciate his work. We know that no veteran should be living on the street. Someone who has served our country should not be homeless. We know that 67% of homeless people in my community of Port Alberni are indigenous. As my colleague from Churchill—Keewatinook Aski just raised, even if we were to double indigenous housing right now there would still not be enough housing to house indigenous people. That is absolutely shameful in a country like ours. I have talked about, and the government talks about this in its budget, using public lands, but they have to be in public hands. It should prioritize military personnel, veterans and indigenous peoples. I asked this question earlier, and a Conservative colleague said Conservatives were waiting until their platform gets rolled out in the next election. I get stuff done here all the time. I am not waiting for the next election to get things done. I think we can work together now. I do not think we can wait until an election next year. I am putting my hand out and extending an olive branch to my colleague in the hope that he will work with me to put pressure on the government to do the right thing when it comes to public lands and getting our priorities in order. Will my colleague accept that olive branch instead of waiting until an election is called?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

May/2/24 8:12:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to acknowledge my colleague from across the hallway. We have had some great chats walking to our offices. I do not think we have ever shared a coffee or a donut, but that could happen. I was thinking about the question the member posed to my colleague earlier on. One thing I have noticed is that there is a cyclical problem that happens. What happens is this: A Liberal government comes into power and creates a problem. It reduces the money spent on the military. Then Conservatives come along and invest, but it takes a long time to dig ourselves out of the hole it has put us into. I would ask my colleague to recognize that Conservatives have always put the military first, that we care about those personnel and that we care about the defence of our country. When in power, we would deliver on the promises we are making right now.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the King’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Emergency Preparedness, Lib.)

May/2/24 8:14:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have not had a chance to work with the colleague opposite. I want to thank him for his service to this country. I have been here nine years this fall, and I think I have developed a reputation in the House for not taking personal potshots. I do not heckle. I work across the aisle. I think everyone who has worked with me knows that. When we talk about our military and talk about veterans, I think we almost all agree in the House that we need to support them. However, here we are having a debate, and included as part of that debate are personal potshots. Imagine what we could do for those same people who we all claim to love if we worked together. It is a crazy idea, I know, but that is what they want us to do. They do not care if it is a Liberal government. They do not care if it is a Conservative government. What they care about is that we work together for them because they are there to defend us. Does the member opposite agree? I look forward to working with him on a defence file. Does he agree that it is time to put away the partisanship and work together for our Canadian Armed Forces?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

May/2/24 8:15:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her question and her recognition of my service. One of the things I would ask of you—

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The Deputy Speaker

May/2/24 8:15:32 p.m.
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Members are to speak through the Speaker.

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

May/2/24 8:15:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, through you, I would ask my colleagues across the aisle to hear what we are saying. We are talking about the issues that those who are serving or have served are bringing forward. They are not just bringing them to us, they are bringing them to the Liberal government and asking for a change. They are asking for it to recognize what they are doing and experiencing. Every time we do that, the pressure is turned up. The carbon tax is increased. Inflation is getting out of control, and the cost of living crisis is getting out of control. Therefore, I would ask them to hear what we have to say and then acknowledge what we are saying.

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Mr. Michael Cooper (St. Albert—Edmonton, CPC)

May/2/24 8:16:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is good and well for the Liberal member opposite to talk in platitudes about working together. However, at the end of the day, the government has a nine-year track record that includes giving the men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces a double whammy on April 1, with a 23% increase of the punitive carbon tax coupled with a hike in rent. It is also coupled with a government that has spent untold amounts of money building the size of government, growing the bureaucracy, but seeing fit to actually make cuts to the Canadian Armed Forces. I would submit that when it comes to the Canadian Armed Forces, the current government is one that puts the Canadian Armed Forces last. Would the member agree?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

May/2/24 8:17:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my simple answer is that yes, I would agree.

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Mr. Gord Johns (Courtenay—Alberni, NDP)

May/2/24 8:18:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will never not take the opportunity to again stand up for military families, the important role they play and the important work they do. We all owe them a ton of gratitude. A report that just came out from the ombudsman made it very clear that it is actually a national security threat that we do not take care of our military personnel. We need to really elevate the conversation, and we need the government to act. One thing I continue to talk about is that one opportunity is using public lands and using them urgently. We have them at bases. We have them in communities right around our country. It actually would be prudent for the government to act on developing a plan and getting started right away to ensure that our military personnel have a safe and affordable place to live. They should be able to save money when they are in the military and actually put money aside for their retirement so they can have a good retirement. We want them to have a good retirement for the sacrifices they have made. Does my colleague support using public lands for prioritizing military veterans, service members and their families?

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Mr. Fraser Tolmie

May/2/24 8:19:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to point out that on military bases, a lot of the housing is substandard. What I believe our party is asking for right now is upgrades, for the housing to be improved so people's quality of life is improved. It is not just military members living in these accommodations; their families are also living in them. While members are deployed overseas, there are plumbing issues, ceiling leaks and holes in the floors. There are all sorts of issues they are dealing with. It is just a recycled problem. I know that my colleague recognizes that this affects not just the member serving but also the whole family whom they live with. When members are deployed, their concerns are increased, although their minds need to be on their job. They have a buddy system where other people's lives depend on them, and if they are not focused on the job, then people's lives are at risk because their families are at risk.

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The Deputy Speaker

May/2/24 8:20:45 p.m.
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There being no further members rising, pursuant to order made earlier today, all questions necessary to dispose of the motion is deemed put and a recorded division is deemed requested. Pursuant to Standing Order 66, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, May 8, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

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