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Mr. Jeremy Patzer (Cypress Hills—Grasslands, CPC)

Jun/6/24 12:21:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think what the member was really trying to get at in his speech is that it seems like this type of corruption, this level of corruption, is ingrained in the government. Toward the end of his speech he was referencing that even during the pandemic the government was taking taxpayer money and sending it off to Liberal insiders. Does the member agree that this is not just a one-off with the government, but that this is actually part of what it is at its very core?

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Jun/6/24 12:22:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague for the opportunity to speak to not only the party's record of corruption, but how consecutive governments, particularly Liberals, have to wait for the Auditor General to catch them red-handed. It should not take the Auditor General and other independent officers of the Parliament to hold the government accountable to do the job that it is supposed to do. A government should have the ability to hold itself accountable and review these processes internally before this level of corruption takes place. The whistle-blowers came forward many times, and it took them filing an official complaint before the government even listened. Worse yet, we still know that the recommendations made by the Auditor General to just follow the rules that are in place are still instances where the Auditor General has to call attention to the government. Her recommendations are squarely put on the fact that rules are in place, but rules are meaningless if they are not followed. We need to hold governments accountable when they breach public trust, and we need to set an example so that Canadians can actually build trust in our systems and not continue to see what is a tradition in the country of the breach of public trust toward the abuse of taxpayers.

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Mr. Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ)

Jun/6/24 12:23:56 p.m.
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Madame Speaker, as my colleagues have said previously, we agree with the idea and the principle of the motion, but we do not agree with its wording. For example, we think there should be more time granted to allow translation services to do their work, as well as a less prescriptive tone to avoid directing the RCMP. It should not be told in advance whether there was an infraction or not, because that is not our job as parliamentarians. That said, basically, we are fully in favour of requiring that the documents be produced. Does my colleague have the same position, that is, does he agree with the idea, while recognizing that the motion needs to be amended to be truly appropriate?

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Jun/6/24 12:24:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for what I believe is a very good-willed offer to parliamentarians in this place to not only strengthen this motion, but to enable us to get not only more documentation, appropriate documentation, which, allowing for more time for translation services, allowing more time for the public service to actually provide credible documents to the betterment of this investigation, is an important piece to this work. I would support such an amendment that would see, for example, within the first paragraph of the motion, it amended from within 14 days to a longer period of time to give the supply period of these documents a better chance of being fully reviewed and also tabled in this place. To the second point that the member makes about directing the RCMP, I fully agree that the RCMP cannot be directed by parliamentarians, particularly in places of democratic nature, because the RCMP investigation needs to have impartiality and independence, which I support.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/6/24 12:25:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very important for us to recognize that this is an arm's-length foundation that has been up and running for the last 20 years. To try to give a false impression that the government has been standing by idly doing nothing, that the federal Auditor General's report comes out and then we take action, is just simply not true. The government has been aware of it. It is the one that initiated the review, which got the third party engaged, which ultimately led to the federal Auditor General also then becoming engaged, all of which the federal government, and the minister in particular, has supported. We have acknowledged that. I was intrigued by the questions that were just posed. After stating the facts, does the member then support the motion being proposed by the Conservatives if it is unamended?

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais

Jun/6/24 12:26:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on the first portion of the member's comments regarding the arms-length nature of the not-for-profit, I would submit that this is the truth. However, another truth is the fact that the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry entered into an agreement with Sustainable Development Technology Canada in order to deliver a fund. The government needs to take more seriously its approach to partnering with groups when they are in breach of very basic principles.

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Mr. Brad Vis (Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, CPC)

Jun/6/24 12:27:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes. Sustainable Technology Development Canada was launched in 2001 to support businesses to innovate and create new sustainable technologies. For more than a decade, and under both Liberal and Conservative governments, SDTC had a few problems, but nothing major, until the current Prime Minister took office. In 2016, the Liberals changed the process for appointments, claiming it would be open and transparent. In 2019, the Liberals were frustrated with then-chair Jim Balsillie, who had spoken out against government legislation, and they decided he should be removed and replaced. The former minister of industry, Navdeep Bains, proposed two options for Mr. Balsillie's replacement. One of them was Annette Verschuren, an entrepreneur who had been receiving SDTC funding through one of her companies. There was a clear conflict of interest with Ms. Verschuren, so one would think, with this new and open transparent appointment process, Ms. Verschuren would have been disqualified immediately. One would be wrong. Former minister Bains, ignoring several warnings about her conflict of interest, proceeded with the appointment within three weeks of Mr. Balsillie's removal. With the arrival of Ms. Verschuren at SDTC, an environment was created in which conflicts of interest were tolerated and managed by the board. Board members would go on to award SDTC funding to companies in which they held stock or positions. Minister Bains appointed five more of the board members, who engaged in unethical and illegal behaviour by approving funding to companies in which they held ownership or seats on the board. Officials from the Department of Innovation, Science and Economic Development sat on the board as observers and witnessed 96 conflicts of interest, but they did not intervene. Former minister Bains would be replaced in January 2021 by the current minister, and in November 2022, whistle-blowers began raising internal concerns with the Auditor General about the unethical practices at SDTC. In February 2023, the Privy Council was briefed by whistle-blowers, and it commissioned two independent reports. In September, the allegations became public, but it took the industry minister a month to agree to suspend funding to the organization. In November, the Auditor General announced that they would be conducting an audit of SDTC. That brings us to this week, with the damning report outlining how $123 million of taxpayer money was misappropriated and misused by the board. The Auditor General's report is one of the most damning I have ever seen in my adult life. It is way worse than the sponsorship scandal of the 1990s, I might add. The report outlined that SDTC did not follow conflict of interest policies in 90 cases and $76 million went to projects connected to friends of the Liberals who sat on the board. SDTC spent $59 million on projects that were not allowed to be awarded any money. Moreover, SDTC spent $12 million on projects that were both in a conflict of interest and ineligible for funding. In one case, Ms. Verschuren siphoned off $217,000 to her own company. The report makes clear that this scandal falls squarely on the shoulders of the government, on the current minister, who did not sufficiently monitor the contracts that were given to Liberal insiders. At last night's Standing Committee on Industry and Technology meeting, the government was quick to gloat over how many clean-tech projects have benefited from SDTC. However, when witnesses were questioned, they failed to admit to the corrupt nature regarding the funding and conflict of interest of these projects. My colleague questioned the witnesses who were responsible for making appointments, yet the SDTC communications manager failed to take any responsibility for the conflict of interest cases. We continued to ask officials how decisions and appointments were made, but time and time again, the government failed to take responsibility for its corrupt practices. Instead, it pointed to broad administrative processes that had no bearing on the questions taxpayers were demanding be answered. It seemed as though the whole team had amnesia, and they failed to provide the committee with answers on how these decisions were made or the relationship to the Auditor General's report. I will again ask what my colleagues asked of the Liberal government last night. Nobody really knew what was going on, nobody had any involvement in the appointments process, and the government was completely guilt-free of anything that happened. Maybe today we can get some answers from Liberal members about what they did wrong and how they are going to fix it. When former minister Bains was questioned as to whether he had read the Auditor General's report, he could not even say he had. It is absurd that a former minister and current vice-president at Rogers Communications would not take the time to read such an important report before going to committee. It is hard not to feel disappointed in one's government when there is a new scandal every day. In 2015, the Liberals promised to be the most open and transparent government in Canadian history. Very quickly, Canadians learned that this is not the case. We saw this in 2019, when the Prime Minister pressured former justice minister Jody Wilson-Raybould to give a get-out-of-jail-free card to the corrupt SNC-Lavalin and fired her for refusing to do it. We saw this in 2020, when the Prime Minister granted hundreds of millions of dollars to WE Charity, an organization his family had financially benefited from. He then prorogued Parliament to shut down the investigation and avoid accountability. In 2022, when we first started to hear of foreign interference in Canada's democracy, the Liberals continued to cover up. This week, we asked Liberals numerous times to name the MPs involved; they refused to do so. After nine years, Canadians know that they will not get any transparency or accountability out of the government. At this point, Canadians have so many scandals before them that they are becoming numb to how bad things really are. They are no longer able to expect the government to be open and honest with them or to take responsibility for its actions, which should be the bare minimum expectation of any government. We cannot continue to allow the government to get away with this level of corruption. More than $100 million was handed out to Liberal insiders with clear conflicts of interest. Therefore, the Conservative Party today is calling upon Parliament to get the requisite documents and to get to the bottom of what happened at SDTC, to get to the bottom of how taxpayer dollars were misappropriated in such a clear and deliberate way. Canadians do not have a lot of trust left in our institutions. I hope the Liberals will vote with the Conservatives today and allow Parliament to access the information we are seeking. This will give Canadians, the RCMP and law enforcement the clear tools they need to hold people accountable, so Canadian taxpayers know where their money is being spent and how it is being used. Again I will point out that last night's industry committee meeting was one of the most disappointing displays I have ever seen in the close to five years I have been in the House. The Liberals clearly could not answer a single question, nor did they want to. It was delay and obfuscation at a level I have never seen before. Parliament needs to know how Canada's money was spent. Parliament needs to know that this will not happen again, and Canadians need to be assured that we will not waste their taxpayer dollars in this way ever again.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/6/24 12:36:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, putting the SDTC issue aside, over the last 20 years, it has provided all sorts of opportunities for companies across the country. It has provided opportunities for start-ups wanting to expand, created green jobs and allowed Canadian companies to be leaders in the world in technology. We recognized it was important to dissolve the board and transfer it to the NRC. Does the member have any thoughts with regard to NRC taking over the responsibilities to ensure that we can continue to provide the funds that are necessary for our environment?

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Mr. Brad Vis

Jun/6/24 12:37:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in terms of the first part of the member's question, the big scandal here is that the government has let down small businesses and the innovative sector in Canada. The government has discredited start-ups in this country that legitimately rely on SDTC to bring their technologies to market and commercialize new and innovative technologies that will protect the government. Today we see a clear case of administrative injustice at a level we have not seen very often in the history of our country. The Auditor General's report is like nothing I have ever read. There is case upon case of the government clearly allowing conflicts of interest and for insiders to have money in their pockets at the expense of Canadian companies, which deserve so much more.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Jun/6/24 12:38:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, among the reports by the Auditor General that came out yesterday, there was one that talked about McKinsey. We know that when subcontracts are awarded to private companies, that contributes to a loss of expertise in the public service. It is the same thing with the closure of Sustainable Development Technology Canada. We do not know where the workers with expertise in sustainable development will end up. There is an even greater risk that we will lose this expertise in the public service. I would like my colleague to tell us whether, in general, we should support the public service more and stop delegating so we can keep more expertise within the government.

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Mr. Brad Vis

Jun/6/24 12:38:46 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in respect to the workers at play here, it was the former Conservative government that brought in stronger enforcement for whistle-blowers. We need to protect members of the public service who see an injustice and are willing to stand up for Canadian taxpayers. In this case, we really did see that. While we did see a level of incompetence and disregard for public money at Industry Canada and at SDTC, the positive thing is that there were public servants and officials willing to step up to protect Canadian interests.

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Mr. Charlie Angus (Timmins—James Bay, NDP)

Jun/6/24 12:39:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I had a lot of confidence when we came into this Parliament that we would get serious about the climate crisis. Canada has the ability and the leadership to have a clean energy economy, yet we are still waiting on the investment tax credits long after the Deputy Prime Minister promised them. We are seeing green slush funds, yet, all the while, the government focused on giving $34 billion in taxpayers' money to build a pipeline for Pathways Alliance. The Liberal government never blinked once when it came to building that pipeline, but when it came to putting the solutions on the ground for a clean-tech economy, it was more willing to help its friends than to live up to the obligations that the Prime Minister made as a solemn promise to the Canadian people back in 2015.

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Mr. Brad Vis

Jun/6/24 12:40:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the debate today is not about pipelines, although I am very pleased to see the Kinder Morgan pipeline completed. That is going to do a lot of good for the Canadian taxpayers. I am glad that project is finished. However, what we are talking about here today is a very serious issue, an Auditor General's report that clearly outlines cases of a conflict of interest. It says the Liberal government failed in its duties to the Canadian public to administer public funds, both transparently and in a way Canadians would expect from their officials.

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Mr. Michael Barrett (Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, CPC)

Jun/6/24 12:41:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have a billion-dollar green slush fund. This is from a government that claims it is serious about the environment, yet it takes a billion dollars and finds every possible way to line the pockets of Liberal insiders with that money. It is incredibly disappointing for Canadians, who once believed in the NDP-Liberal government, but they have seen, after nine years of the Prime Minister, his broken promises and his insider dealings, that he is just not worth the cost. We know, from the Auditor General's bombshell report this week, that he is not worth the corruption. How many conflicts of interest do members think we could find at the billion-dollar green slush fund? Would it be one, two or three? I am going to give members the number in a second. First, let us talk about two conflicts of interest. One is the hand-picked chair, Annette Verschuren, who was hand-picked by the NDP-Liberal Prime Minister. She is under investigation by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. We also have another hand-picked Liberal appointee, Guy Ouimet, who is under investigation by the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner. Is the number two? Is the number 90? There were 90 conflicts of interest, where $76 million in funding was awarded to projects where there were connections to the Liberals' friends appointed to roles within the SDTC, the slush fund. The Auditor General found 186 conflicts of interest. It is unbelievable, as it was with the Auditor General's report into the government's failed $60-million arrive scam. The NDP-Liberal government will do everything it can to avoid accountability. We heard from the minister that he was going to take tough action, and as soon as the Liberals found out, they were going to get to the bottom of it. They have been dragged, kicking and screaming, this entire time. Finally, this week, we thought we had some signs of life in terms of accountability from the minister when he shut down the corrupt slush fund, but he just rolled it into his ministry to make it a little harder to track, and he was hoping that nobody would notice the grift continuing to go on. Was there an Auditor General report on the billion-dollar slush fund because the Liberals wanted to check on what was going on at the arm's-length organization? No. Conservatives had to call for there to be an investigation. Like with the $60-million arrive scam, we took a vote in the House. We heard from the Liberals that anyone who broke the rules would be held accountable, that they took it all very seriously and everything was above board. Of course, it was not. The Prime Minister, his front bench and all of his MPs voted against accountability when they voted against an Auditor General report, which uncovered massive corruption in that case. Of course, the RCMP needs to investigate here. Why? It is because of the alleged and potential criminal wrongdoing, just like we saw going on with the CBSA, the arrive scam, and with the Botler project. After Conservatives raised the matter, and the truth started coming to light, the RCMP start kicking people's doors in. It involved dragging people in front of the House of Commons because they were lying to parliamentary committees. That is not acceptable, and it is certainly not going to do anything for the environment, just as not a dollar from the billion-dollar slush fund was intended to do. Members will hear the Liberals say in responses today that the Conservatives set this whole thing up. They are telling on themselves because they say that Conservatives do not take care of the environment, but we wanted Canadians to be able to innovate in this space. We wanted there to be a partnership with government, but after nine years of the Liberals in government, they just turned it into another piggy bank for their buddies to line their pockets. We saw that with the CEO, who had to resign in disgrace, and the directors, who had to resign in disgrace. They were paying themselves bonuses instead of supporting the innovators, but that is very much the hallmark of what we expect from a tired government that seems to be found in these cases of corruption almost weekly. We had the minister from Edmonton this week claim that he wholly owns an Alberta numbered company that owns 50% of a company called GHI, which he seems to have been continuing to operate. He is a cabinet minister, so that is, of course, against the law. The text messages that were revealed in Global News talk about “Randy”, “Randy” wanting a partner and there needing to be a partner call. The minister has been very clear. He says it is another Randy, and we want to know who that is, but he did not come to committee to tell us. He did not come to committee to say that it is, for example, Randy Smith. He said that he does not know who that is. I asked if he does not own half the company. He claimed that, no, he does not. I asked who owns half the company. He said that it is Alberta 12345678. I asked who owns that company. He said that he does. Even on straightforward matters, Liberals cannot tell the truth. Every week, sometimes multiple times a week, we find scandals with the government. Why is the hand-picked board chair at the billion-dollar slush fund being looked at by an officer of Parliament, the Ethics Commissioner? She voted to give herself $220,000. How does that help the environment? What does that do for Canadians in a cost of living crisis? I have said before that the Liberals are not worried about the lines at the food bank; they are worried about lining the pockets of Liberal insiders. We have learned that the member for Calgary Skyview was told of corruption at the green slush fund by whistle-blowers in 2022. I checked the Hansard. He did not talk about it in here, and if he talked about it in his caucus with the NDP-Liberal Prime Minister, the Prime Minister did not seem too worried about it. Neither did the minister, who gets very animated when we talk about this subject and claims that Conservatives are attacking a sacred institution. It is sacred to Liberal insiders who are getting fat off of the pork that the Liberals are shovelling into this organization. I want to offer a quote from a senior public servant who was captured in an audio recording that was released by a whistle-blower on this. The officials knew how bad it was, so we know the minister knew how bad it was. The public servant said, “It was free money”. He also said, “That is almost a sponsorship-scandal level kind of giveaway”. It is as bad as the 2000s-era sponsorship scandal under the Chrétien Liberals, and it barely raises an alarm bell after nine years of the NDP-Liberal government. Conservatives want accountability. That is why we asked for the Auditor General to investigate. Conservatives want Canadians to be able to have confidence in their public institutions. That is why the RCMP needs to be able to see the documents, in full, from the billion-dollar slush fund. It is $120 million in ineligible payments, and Canadians want their money back.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/6/24 12:51:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is no other member in the Conservative-Reform party who continuously harps on this one issue more than the member. Whatever the issue is, he will just add the word “scandal” to it. Whether it is real or not, that is his job. Members can take a look at this and try to look at what actually transpired, contrary to what the member tries to give a false impression of. When it was discovered, the government did take actions. Those actions ultimately led to the national Auditor General taking a look at it and issuing a report. When the report came out, there was a consequence. That board no longer exists, and now it is going through the NRC. I wonder if the member would like to reflect, as maybe he overuses the word “corruption”, because he uses it all the time. I would not mind doing a contrast between Stephen Harper and corruption versus our—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/6/24 12:52:27 p.m.
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The hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Jun/6/24 12:52:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if the Liberals are tired of me talking about their corruption, they should stop being corrupt. The parliamentary secretary, the Liberals and the Prime Minister did not ask for the Auditor General to investigate. I want to refresh the member's memory. Conservatives had to call for an emergency meeting to have this issue raised to the Auditor General. Conservatives had to do that. The process gets obstructed every step of the way by the Liberals, who want to cover up their corruption. If they do not like being called corrupt, they should stop all the corruption.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Jun/6/24 12:53:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we are in 2024, 19 years after the Auditor General's 2005 report that covered the 10 years of the Conservative government. Despite that, Sustainable Development Technology Canada still exists. There is a certain loss of control over public funds. That has never been resolved. The Conservatives are trying to create a Liberal scandal with today's motion. I would like to make a scandal out of the new Conservative Liberal coalition because, honestly, this issue transcends parties. Ultimately, the federal government's mismanagement is not just a Liberal problem, it is a Conservative one as well.

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Mr. Michael Barrett

Jun/6/24 12:54:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have good news for my hon. colleague from the Bloc from the Office of the Auditor General. In the year 2017, the Auditor General offered a clean bill of health to Sustainable Development Technologies Canada, which was established by the former Conservative government. What happened after that was an Auditor General report that looked at the period thereafter, when the NDP-Liberal government was in power. What happened? Corruption happened. Call in the Mounties.

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Mr. Ryan Williams (Bay of Quinte, CPC)

Jun/6/24 12:55:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the response of the government is incredible to Canadians. It is not just about this issue or this scandal, as there have been so many this morning. At the security and public safety committee meeting this morning, they were trying to figure out foreign interference. Certain MPs were involved in foreign interference and foreign entities on our own soil. The member for Pickering—Uxbridge said boo hoo, we should get over it. That was a perfect response. When we look at this scandal, this epic scandal for Canadians, of course the Liberals say to get over it, that they will fold it into the government and there is nothing to see here. However, there is much to see. Should Canadians get over it?

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