SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 328 - Jun/10/24

Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, NDP)

Jun/10/24 6:29:27 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have heard some Liberals today claiming that the government is leading the charge on this, yet a year ago the NDP put forward a motion for a national inquiry on foreign interference, and the Liberals voted against it. I am wondering what they were trying to hide back then.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/10/24 6:29:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member for South Okanagan—West Kootenay is a long-time member and a very learned member of the House. I will speak for myself on this issue because it is an issue of national importance when we are talking about foreign interference, disinformation and what is happening in the world, especially geopolitically. We need to be measured. We need to be diligent. We need to be judicious, and we need to move forward. We also need to seek advice from all parties and all entities in our country on how we protect our democracy and our institutions, and how to do it expeditiously in the right manner.

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Ms. Lena Metlege Diab (Halifax West, Lib.)

Jun/10/24 6:30:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his use of the French language. That was wonderful. We all agree with the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians that the “Special Report on Foreign Interference in Canada's Democratic Processes and Institutions” is a very serious report. Every parliamentarian and, I would recommend, most people involved in anything to do with politics or civil society should read it. Does my colleague not agree that it is important for leaders of the opposition to accept the offer to get security clearance so they can see the full, unredacted report?

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/10/24 6:31:33 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am incredulous, if I am using the correct word, that any leader of any officially recognized party in the House would not have received security clearance to see these types of reports. That is called leadership. That is leadership 101, 100 or even 099. It is a complete failure in leadership for any leader in the House not to get that security clearance. If they would wish to be a responsible leader going into the future, they must do that. It is a real shame, and it is very disappointing.

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Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)

Jun/10/24 6:32:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I challenge my colleague on that hogwash. If he can name one instance in history when there has been a leader of the opposition who has had to be briefed on one of these matters in the background so he could do his job as the leader of His Majesty's loyal opposition in holding the government to account, I would ask him to present that to me now.

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Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Jun/10/24 6:32:34 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in the context in the world we are in today, it is imperative that every leader of an officially recognized party in the House receives that security clearance. The technology that is being used today, the online format and the sophistication of criminals both domestic and foreign, or whichever entities, demand that every leader in the House who is officially recognized receives that security clearance.

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Hon. Mona Fortier (Ottawa—Vanier, Lib.)

Jun/10/24 6:33:05 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-70 Bill C-65

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House to discuss the government's efforts to protect our democratic institutions. As members know, Canada has an enviable international reputation because of the stability of its system and democratic institutions. It is important to remember that we have a strong electoral system built on a proven legal framework, and that Elections Canada is a high-calibre election administration agency that is the envy of many. Obviously, we do not take the threat of foreign interference lightly, and it is essential that we continue to improve our approach. Last year was eventful to say the least, and a lot of attention was drawn to these important concerns. Just in the last few weeks, in addition to the Hogue commission's initial report, reports were also published by the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians and the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency. I would like to remind members that these two agencies began their respective studies following the Prime Minister's announcement in March 2023. These accountability mechanisms are essential to ensure transparency and contribute directly to the government's commitment to continue to improve its response to this threat, which is also constantly evolving. In that same announcement, the Prime Minister asked the hon. Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs and Janice Charette, the former clerk of the Privy Council, to present a report on the government's approach to implement certain recommendations on foreign interference. That report was presented to the Prime Minister a month later. The approach set out in that report centres on four specific themes. The first of these themes is communication with the Canadian public, meaning the need for transparency and the need to equip citizens with knowledge in this area. Communication is a key element in the fight against attempted interference in Canadian democracy. The government recognizes the importance of better communicating information about the threat of foreign interference and the measures taken by the government to deal with it. Much has already been done in this regard. For example, intelligence agencies have been publishing reports on foreign interference in elections since 2017. In addition, one component of the plan to protect Canada's democracy is the digital citizen initiative, overseen by Canadian Heritage, which aims to build the resilience of citizens and Canadian society against online disinformation. Our work did not stop there. Since the release of this report, rapid response mechanism Canada, located at Global Affairs Canada, has released two reports exposing foreign actors' disinformation campaigns targeting elected members of the House. The Minister of Public Safety also announced details on the funding for the Canadian digital media research network to further strengthen Canadians' resilience to the increasingly complex information ecosystem. The minister also released tool kits to resist disinformation and foreign interference for elected officials, public servants and community leaders. These tools have been shared with several partners, including provincial and territorial ministers. These initiatives are just a few examples of how the government is communicating with Canadians on these important issues. We recognize that more work needs to be done in this regard, and we are continuing our efforts. It is important to remember that this kind of communication comes with significant challenges. While we recognize the need for transparency, it is important that it not come at the expense of national security and the safety of those who risk so much, sometimes even their lives, to enable the collection of intelligence that is essential to our efforts to combat foreign interference. In her recent report, Commissioner Hogue aptly explains how difficult it is to strike a balance. As members of the House can see, we have already made considerable progress on this first theme, as highlighted by the minister and Ms. Charette. The same is true for the second theme, which concerns governance and legal frameworks. This report demonstrated the government's commitment to considering improvements to the legal framework supporting the capacity of intelligence agencies, in particular the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, or CSIS, and our electoral process. The Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs recently introduced two important bills in the House in support of these commitments. First, Bill C-70, an act respecting countering foreign interference, proposes important measures, including an update to CSIS' mandate. I would like to highlight the addition of offences related to foreign interference in democratic processes to the Security of Information Act. The minister also introduced Bill C-65, an act to amend the Canada Elections Act. This bill continues to improve our electoral processes, including by implementing many of the Chief Electoral Officer's recommendations. This bill builds on the 2018 Elections Modernization Act as part of our efforts to counter foreign interference in our elections. I hope that all members in the House will support this bill. The minister promised to advance these priorities and he did. Now it is up to members of the House and the representatives at the other place to ensure that these bills are adopted swiftly. The government continues to advance the commitments in the report discussed this evening that was submitted to the Prime Minister in March 2023. Our work continues. This brings me to the report's third theme. It highlights the requirement for the government to have the ability to evaluate risks and vulnerabilities resulting from the growing threat posed by foreign interference in order to be able to adapt the government's tool kit to the evolving threat. The recent reports, as well as the deliberations of the public inquiry into foreign interference in federal electoral processes and democratic institutions, provide valuable information that we can use to further improve existing measures for countering the threat of foreign interference. Among other things, this includes measures introduced under the plan to protect Canada's democracy. As the report states, our government will continue to explore further enhancements to this plan. This will include an examination of making the Security and Intelligence Threats to Elections Task Force a permanent entity, with a mandate to conduct regular reporting on foreign interference activities. Lastly, I would be remiss not to mention the final theme of the report, which involves engagement to raise awareness and improve resilience to foreign interference. I have already mentioned some of the government's efforts in this regard, including the publication of information kits to resist disinformation and foreign interference. The work on this is also ongoing, and resources have been invested to ensure active progress on these efforts. The Government of Canada also created the Protecting Democracy Unit within the Privy Council Office to coordinate, develop and implement government-wide measures. These teams are working with other agencies and partners within government and with stakeholders to advance these efforts. Perhaps I should remind my colleagues that, when we swear our oath or affirmation of allegiance, we are swearing allegiance to democratic institutions and the principle of democracy. That means we have to take our responsibilities seriously, and I find it reassuring that the government is committed to better informing partners about the threat of foreign interference. I am ready for questions.

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Mr. Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ)

Jun/10/24 6:43:14 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I listened closely to my colleague, who is also a wise fellow member of the Standing Committee on International Trade. That is what I want to talk about, in fact. Unfortunately, I ran out of time at the end of my speech earlier, but my colleague from Mirabel asked me an interesting question that I would also like to put to my Standing Committee on International Trade colleague. Several of Canada's trading and economic partners are justifiably suspicious, because, if there is interference, there is also the possibility that Canada is nothing but a conduit for foreign interests. Does the member sense that Canada's partners are worried or afraid?

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Hon. Mona Fortier

Jun/10/24 6:44:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I work very well with my colleague across the way at the Standing Committee on International Trade, and I think that we are still in the process of ensuring that we are doing the right things. Obviously, we have concerns. With the bills we are discussing this evening, we are making sure that we have the right tools to reduce any fears that companies may have and address the threats that they believe the country is facing. We will continue to work together to build this trust that will allow us to continue to prosper and work together.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

Jun/10/24 6:44:53 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in the NSICOP report, the committee noted that NSICOP tabled its first report indicating concerns around foreign interference activities back in 2018. Since then, there have been two other reports with this latest one. The government said that it would take action, but there was a huge gap when no action was taken. As a result, we saw that leaks surfaced in the media, which propelled the government to action. The NSICOP report actually noted that, because of the gap, we are sending all the wrong messages; we are basically saying that there is no deterrent for foreign interference actors and that they can carry on with business as usual. Therefore, in light of this and the severity of foreign interference into Canada's democratic institutions and processes, would the member agree that Commissioner Hogue should be given unfettered access to all unredacted documents, both within cabinet and what was provided to NSICOP, so that we can get to the bottom of the situation?

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Hon. Mona Fortier

Jun/10/24 6:46:19 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-70 Bill C-65

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question and the context she provided. As we can see, the government did take steps to set up the Hogue commission and ensure that the mandate it was given had parameters. These parameters are numerous, and they are being followed. We will leave it to Commissioner Hogue to continue to write her report and make recommendations. The government is taking action. We see that with the introduction of Bill C‑70 and Bill C‑65.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

Jun/10/24 6:47:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the reality is this: The commissioner is not able to get access to unredacted documents. In my view, that is impeding the ability for the commission to do its work, to rebuild trust in the hearts and minds of Canadians and all parliamentarians. Again, is it not time for the government to do what is necessary and give the commissioner unfettered access to unredacted cabinet documents, as well as intelligence documents?

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Hon. Mona Fortier

Jun/10/24 6:47:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, again, I am sure that Commissioner Hogue will be able to do her work and that she will ask for everything she needs to be able to finalize her report and make recommendations to the government. I am sure that this will happen within the scope of the mandate she received.

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon (Mirabel, BQ)

Jun/10/24 6:48:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to see my colleagues here this evening to debate the important issue of foreign interference in Canadian elections. Today, our democratic life has reached the very heart of the House of Commons. The report that the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians released last week, which is a redacted version—we do not have access to all the information—is literally a bombshell. I will read the part of paragraph 55, on page 25, that we are allowed to read: “Some elected officials, however, began wittingly assisting foreign state actors soon after their election”. Obviously, some sentences are redacted, but there are reportedly several members of Parliament who provided—not would provide—“confidential information to Indian officials”. When we pick up a version of this document in the lobby and start reading it on our way to the House, and we come across that, it means we are in crisis. What is surprising is that the party proposing a solution to the crisis, so that the public can regain confidence in its elected assembly, is the Bloc Québécois. Let us be clear: This is not about protecting the Canada of today. It is about defending a fundamental principle that is supposed to be universal. I am talking about the representation of elected officials and the representation of democracy. All of that hinges on trust. Every riding is important. I say that as a token of esteem for my colleagues. Every riding is important and every elected member in the House is important. That is why we have a hard time trusting the Prime Minister to take action. That is why we are trying to push the Prime Minister. He has a lot to answer for. We read in the Hogue commission's report that there was interference in the riding of Don Valley North and that the Prime Minister knew about it. The testimony showed that he had the reports, he had the information. We do not know whether or not he read them. It still looks like he is not interested. The Hogue commission's report said that the Liberals claimed they did nothing because they expected to win the riding. Every elected representative is important. Independent members are important. Green Party members are important. The Conservatives are important. The Liberals are important. What would we do without the member for Winnipeg North? All elected representatives are important, but the government does not seem to think so, based on the way it is dealing with the issue of foreign interference. Its actions do not reflect that. The Prime Minister has given us every reason to doubt his seriousness. Earlier, I was listening to the member for Ottawa—Vanier recite the litany of measures they have taken. The reality is that the information had to be released. The reality is that these measures are insufficient. Journalists only got the information because of CSIS data leaks. At that time, there were calls for a public inquiry. I was elected in 2021. That was one of the first major incidents I witnessed. Everyone was rising in the House every day and calling for a public inquiry. The Prime Minister refused to call one, eventually deciding that it was untenable. The government is always in reaction mode. That is what it is doing today. We welcome the government's support, but it is reactive. The Liberals appointed a friend. Everyone knows that a friend is a friend. They appointed their friend Mr. Johnston, who is a respectable individual. I, for one, would not want my friends to put me in that type of situation. A real friend would not put a person in the situation that the Liberals put Mr. Johnston in. No one needs friends like that. In passing, I do not have many Liberal friends. Mr. Johnston's finding was that nothing was going on, that nothing went on and that all is well. We were just supposed to carry on and act as though nothing ever happened. The member for Ottawa—Vanier just gave a speech that was likely written by the Prime Minister's Office. Those are the same people who were saying that nothing was going on, that we needed to carry on and that that was the least of their concerns. How long has it been? It has been a year, and today we are living with suspicion in the air. First, the Hogue commission gave us some information. We are starting to wrap our heads around it. I know there are allegations. I know that there are secret agents' reports, intelligence reports and so on. There could be rumours or unsubstantiated information in there. However, almost everything lines up. They say that there is no smoke without fire. Well, there is enough smoke to fill the sky right now. We know something is going on. There is suspicion in the air. Personally, I respect my colleagues. We have differences of opinion, different political choices. We come from different places politically, geographically and linguistically, but we respect each other because we represent those who elected us. This affair does not sit well with me. For me, it is a violation of my privilege not to know whether the person in front of me represents Indian, Chinese or Russian interests. That is why we absolutely must expand the commission's terms of reference. The government did not want that commission. It had to be negotiated last summer. The negotiations went on for some time. Eventually, a commission was struck. At the time, the terms of reference were fine. They suited us because the issue was election interference. We wanted the commission to cover the most pressing, urgent issue, because there was the prospect of an election. The NDP wanted something else, but that was the thinking at the time. People thought there might be an election, so it made sense to focus on that. Today, we know that there are people sitting here among us who are doing things that cannot be undone. These people no longer belong among us in this assembly. We do not know who these people are. Now, the Conservatives want a list of names. The day after the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians report was released, we asked some questions here. The NDP asked questions. Everyone asked questions. Two parties were less interested. There were the Conservatives, who were probably asking about the carbon tax because that is all they know how to do, and then there were the Liberals, who, when we asked questions about foreign interference, wanted to talk about the interest rate. The Liberals have changed their tune since then. They probably realize that they cannot survive if they do not support this motion. That leaves the Conservatives. At some point, the Conservatives will also have to stop spreading disinformation. As everyone knows, we are fighting against foreign powers that may co-opt organizations here, that may even co-opt elected members of the House, though we do not know how, and that can engage in disinformation campaigns and fundraise through local election campaigns. We are now dealing with a situation where the Conservatives are spreading disinformation by saying that the government has the right to release a list of names, when in fact that would be against the law. It is not right to fight fire with fire in these circumstances. The Hogue commission, which is already at work, must have its terms of reference expanded. It needs more resources, more time and expanded terms of reference so that it is not limited to analyzing the last two elections. Even before the NSICOP report came out, we were asking for more time for the Hogue commission because we felt it needed it. Today, I think we will be able to achieve that if the government honours the will of the House and respects the motion, assuming it is adopted. Now the Conservatives have a moral duty. If democracy is important to them and if the facts are important to them, they have a moral duty to support this motion. The Conservatives have a troubled history. Lying has become their trademark as of late. Fabrications have become their trademark. Misquoting reports from the Parliamentary Budget Officer has become their trademark. If, for once, the members of this party are able to show that they have a shred of respect for the truth, for facts, for democracy and for our institutions, they will support this motion. I have every confidence that, between now and the vote, all members of the House will shoulder their responsibilities and unanimously adopt the Bloc Québécois motion.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Jun/10/24 6:58:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, given the power and authority that all leaders of political parties have in terms of even signing off on the ability to be nominated and run in a federal election, would the member not agree that all leaders should take advantage of the opportunity to get the security clearance, so that they can actually take a look at the documents and see the information, a lot of which is information that the member has been talking about as critical information? Leaders do have that opportunity, yet the Conservative leader continues to say, “No, I do not want to know.” I am interested in what the member's thoughts are in regard to when he made reference to moral responsibilities. Is there a responsibility for the leader of the Conservative Party to get the security clearance so that he can actually see the information we are talking about?

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Mr. Jean-Denis Garon

Jun/10/24 6:59:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the leader of the Bloc Québécois said that he was thinking about the opportunity of such a briefing. At one time, it was seen as a trap. Agreeing to this security briefing means getting the information and the names. However, those who obtain the names are not allowed to disclose them, not allowed to talk about it and not allowed to act on this information. We are effectively being shut down. I think that the NDP leader received the security briefing, but so what? Do we know anything? The answer is no. To me, I think that the leaders should calmly and seriously think about receiving this briefing, making their decisions and, legally, take the necessary measures within their party. However, that is no substitute for the Hogue commission, which has to get to the bottom of things and report publicly on what it can.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/10/24 7:00:11 p.m.
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It being 7 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply. The question is on the motion. If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

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Mr. Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay

Jun/10/24 7:01:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the Bloc Québécois requests a recorded division.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Jun/10/24 7:01:22 p.m.
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Pursuant to Standing Order 45, the recorded division on the motion stands deferred until Tuesday, June 11, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

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Hon. Filomena Tassi

Jun/10/24 7:01:47 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-20

moved that Bill C-20, An Act establishing the Public Complaints and Review Commission and amending certain Acts and statutory instruments, be read the third time and passed.

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