44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 10, 2024 11:00AM
- Jun/10/24 12:49:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, initially, it seemed that the government had done everything it could to cover up the issue. It began by refusing to hold a public inquiry. I want to know whether the government is now actually prepared to get to the bottom of the matter and expand the commission's terms of reference.
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- Jun/10/24 2:20:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.
I am a little surprised. The person sitting next to him, his House leader, sent me a letter over the weekend suggesting that these questions be addressed to the Hogue commission, and that this was the appropriate forum with the precautions that are in place.
Today the House is debating a motion from our friends in the Bloc Québécois that we are going to support. I think this is an important time for Parliament. We must come together and support the work of the Hogue commission, and that is exactly what we plan on doing.
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- Jun/10/24 2:23:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will repeat what I said a moment ago in French. We agree with members of this House that the appropriate forum to look at these matters is the commission that is already set up and operating, set up, I would remind colleagues, with the unanimous support of all parties in this House. The Hogue commission has access to all of the documents that the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians looked at. Officials from the Privy Council Office have already been in touch with the Hogue commission to determine the best way forward.
We think that is a responsible way to proceed, not simply standing up and illegally announcing a list of names, like my colleague suggests.
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- Jun/10/24 2:27:23 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have good news. The work I did with my colleague and the other House leaders last summer has resulted in the Hogue commission.
We believe that the terms of reference we negotiated with our friend from La Prairie allows the commission to do precisely the work that the Bloc Québécois motion calls for.
We will support the motion in tomorrow's vote. We will work with the Hogue commission precisely to determine the best way to proceed.
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- Jun/10/24 2:27:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, last week, during question period, when I asked what the government was going to do to ensure that no one in the House is working for a foreign power, the Deputy Prime Minister responded by talking about the interest rates.
The Bloc Québécois cares about this issue and is concerned about this threat to democracy and here she comes out with her useless spin. That speaks volumes about the Liberals' lack of seriousness. They are not taking this seriously. The threat is very serious.
Will the government offer its full collaboration to the Hogue commission once its terms of reference have been expanded?
Democracy depends on it.
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- Jun/10/24 2:28:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, absolutely, the answer is yes. As I said, senior officials at the Privy Council already initiated that discussion with the Hogue commission on the weekend.
We will always be there to ensure that the Hogue commission has everything it needs to shed light on this situation.
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- Jun/10/24 2:51:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier in question period, our government has always collaborated with the Hogue commission, and senior public servants who are responsible for decisions around redactions work collaboratively and constructively at all times.
As I said, obviously the government will ensure that the Hogue commission has access to all the documents necessary to do the important work that we have asked it to do. That has been our position since we created the Hogue commission and that will continue to be the work we will do.
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- Jun/10/24 5:14:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the NSICOP report noted that the foreign interference actors, particularly those from China and India, are most pervasive. The implications are significant to Canadians, to our democratic institutions and to our processes. While the government has known about this for a long time, our system is deficient in addressing the issue.
Paramount to the motion today and to ongoing efforts to counter foreign interference activities is ensuring that the commission has access to all unredacted documents, most certainly the ones that NSICOP received and, as well, the information from cabinet. Would the member support the call for the government to release all unredacted documents to the commission?
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- Jun/10/24 5:15:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is a lot to unpack in my colleague's question.
First, maybe there should be no more working in silos. Right now, the problem is that everyone clings to their prerogative and runs their own show. They see certain information as belonging exclusively to them. Nobody talks to one another. That has to change.
They also need to stop being willfully blind. There are none so blind as those who will not see. They have the information. The Prime Minister had the information. His office had the information, but it refused to look at it or be briefed.
Now, it is important that the Hogue commission receive the documents it deems necessary and that it take whatever action is appropriate.
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- Jun/10/24 6:02:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am glad to know that at least one member listened to my speech from start to finish. We get along well and agree on most things.
That is why the commission's terms of reference need to be expanded, so that these individuals can be identified and each party leader can do their job and kick these people out of Parliament. I completely agree with my colleague that these members should not be sitting in this place. I agree with her that they should not be allowed to run again. We are on the same page. When she talks about parliamentary privilege, that is fine, but what I consider to be even more important is public trust in the government.
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- Jun/10/24 6:12:54 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate many of the words that the member put on the record this afternoon.
NSICOP, which I commented on in my opening remarks as being a creation of the Liberal government, ultimately provided us with the report that we are tabling. Now we know that this is going to be reviewed by the Hogue commission.
The Hogue commission was put together in co-operation with all political parties. There will be a report, and through that report I hope to find all sorts of good pieces of information that will better equip leaders and others to deal with building confidence in the system in terms of minimizing indirect foreign interference.
I am wondering if the member could provide additional thoughts in regard to the public confidence and all political parties working together, in particular once that whole report comes out.
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- Jun/10/24 6:14:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, at least one can say that my colleague is consistent. He has asked the same question about 15 times. Sometimes he changes the wording. He is tenacious. I admire that in politics. I respect that.
That being said, it is obviously not a bad thing to increase, enhance and expand the terms of references. That is the purpose of today's motion. I would remind the House that it has three components. First, we talk about taking note of the special report. The House needs to recognize the special report. Second, we are concerned that certain elected officials could be wittingly or unwittingly working in the interests of foreign powers. Now, here is the important part. We are asking that the commission's terms of reference be expanded. That is probably the most important of the three points, even though all three are fundamental. That one is important. I think that goes along with what my colleague just said.
However, I would like to remind him that this commission was not established because of a willingness on the part of the government. We had to hound the government non-stop to make that happen.
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- Jun/10/24 6:16:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it goes without saying that this commission must have the resources to do its job. It is as simple as that. That is fundamental. If a commission is set up, it must not be turned into a mere political show, a way of trying to shut down a debate that is starting to become a nuisance. We must give it the means to get to the bottom of things.
My colleague said, “the Prime Minister”. Personally, I get the sense that there is more than just one prime minister who has turned a blind eye to foreign interference. I get the sense that we are witnessing a problem that is much more systemic and far more persistent, and that this is a problem with the system as opposed to a problem with the government. That is why I would also like us to look further back than just the last few years.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the question and the context she provided. As we can see, the government did take steps to set up the Hogue commission and ensure that the mandate it was given had parameters.
These parameters are numerous, and they are being followed. We will leave it to Commissioner Hogue to continue to write her report and make recommendations. The government is taking action. We see that with the introduction of Bill C‑70 and Bill C‑65.
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- Jun/10/24 6:47:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the reality is this: The commissioner is not able to get access to unredacted documents. In my view, that is impeding the ability for the commission to do its work, to rebuild trust in the hearts and minds of Canadians and all parliamentarians. Again, is it not time for the government to do what is necessary and give the commissioner unfettered access to unredacted cabinet documents, as well as intelligence documents?
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- Jun/10/24 7:22:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the legislation itself is a follow-up to a commitment that we actually made in the 2020 throne speech. Since then, we have continued to look at ways we can deal with the discrimination that takes place. I believe that the commission would actually be empowered through a complaint-driven process that would help by providing the type of information that would be essential as we move forward. We would get reports coming into government that would reflect what is actually taking place at our border controls and our RCMP. We will have to wait and see what kinds of policy directions might come out of those reports.
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- Jun/10/24 7:26:16 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to stand again to ask further about the parliamentary secretary's response to my question on having the commission take in some of those complaints, hearing them and learning from them. That may be all well and good, but would it not be better for the legislation to help address the issues before they happen and deal with them proactively so that we could prevent someone from coming to harm in the first place?
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- Jun/10/24 7:38:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's always well-spoken and well-thought-out comments on the legislation before us tonight.
I echo the concerns that my colleague raised about the long and delayed process the Liberals have in managing a lot of the legislation they bring forward. It is their inability not only to get legislation through to make fundamental changes, many of which we have argued and thankfully some have been taken up, but more, I would like my colleague to perhaps elaborate a bit on the frustration we constantly have that when a piece of legislation is passed in the House and in the Senate, it is the actual implementation of it in a timely manner.
There is strong support across the country and here in the House for this commission to proceed, but if it is like other commissions, like other promises made in the past by the Liberals and NDP in legislation, it often costs a lot of money, takes a lot of time and produces more frustration than results. Could my colleague elaborate as to whether she shares that same concern post this legislation passing and not just in the process of seeing it through right now?
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